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From "George Sexton" <>
Subject RE: never say never...
Date Mon, 20 Feb 2006 21:39:08 GMT

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Filip Hanik - Dev Lists [] 
> Sent: Monday, February 20, 2006 1:52 PM
> To: Tomcat Developers List
> Subject: Re: never say never...
> nor the political aspects of open source projects and how they work,

This is a topic in which you should actually have a great deal of interest.
Tomcat is a brilliant example of a project that has a totally dysfunctional
leadership environment. On paper it is a meritocracy. This is great. The
trouble is that the committers have power, without any real responsibility.
For example, the responsibility to not be abusive towards others. So,
committers can pretty much do anything without consequence.

Just as a little example, several months ago I submitted a patch. One
committer commented that he would -1 it for the "com.sun" imports. There
weren't any com.sun imports, and when called on it the committer just gaffed
me off. So, this committer just flat out lied (or was mistaken and when
corrected denied the original error) about a reason for rejecting something.
To be fair, the patch did have other problems that were legitimate issues.
However, they should have been presented rather than a fairy tale invention.

As far as how to structurally fix the tomcat group, my only feeble
suggestion would be to permit "TOMCAT USERS" to recall or fire committers.
Perhaps then some of the more egregious abuses would cease.

> but the user brings up a good point, with a probable solution, and I 
> don't see how a non committer response like the one below is 
> even justified.

I was being ironic or sarcastic. I'm really not sure which.

As for the part about "non-committer", I just parroted back the #1 committer
response to new bugs or requests entered into BugZilla. Often, when a users
re-opens these events and asks why, they're re-closed with only "RESOLVED |
INVALID". If you don't like it (as I don't), go to the "committers" that do
this. It seems to me that perhaps someone could do a little analysis and
address the worst offenders.

> I'm not intending to start a flame war here, just asking for a little 
> bit more courtesy.

There won't be courtesy until those people who are the worst offenders are
punished in some manner, or have their status as committers revoked. After
all, why should they behave when there is no consequence?

> Think about it, what would the tomcat project be without its users?

It would evidently be living in a state of open source purity where quality
application design doesn't conflict with stupid people who want to use the
software to solve business problems.

The developers of the application who already live on a higher plane than
the lowly users, without this interference achieve a higher state of
consciousness. Perhaps they would even reach Nerdvana....

> Filip
> George Sexton wrote:
> >
> > George Sexton
> > MH Software, Inc.
> >
> > Voice: 303 438 9585
> >   

George Sexton
MH Software, Inc.
Voice: 303 438 9585

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