Mailing-List: contact dev-help@tomcat.apache.org; run by ezmlm
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: "Tomcat Developers List" <dev@tomcat.apache.org>
Received-SPF: neutral (asf.osuosl.org: local policy)
Message-ID: <003901c5e0f1$28ef2ab0$0100a8c0@helen>
Reply-To: "Bob Bronson" <rbronson1976@yahoo.com>
From: "Bob Bronson" <rbronson1976@yahoo.com>
To: "Tomcat Developers List" <dev@tomcat.apache.org>
References: <002301c5dd6d$4b235e30$0100a8c0@helen>
 <4367859F.9080603@apache.org>
Subject: Sloppy,
 Lazy Tomcat Developers (Was: Persistent "xmlValidation" Problem)
Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2005 21:38:01 -0600
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	format=flowed;
	charset="iso-8859-1";
	reply-type=response
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Comments below, for any of you who care....


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jeanfrancois Arcand" <jfarcand@apache.org>
To: "Tomcat Developers List" <dev@tomcat.apache.org>
Cc: <tomcat-dev@jakarta.apache.org>
Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2005 9:11 AM
Subject: Re: Persistent "xmlValidation" Problem


> Hi,
>
> Bob Bronson wrote:
>> Hello,
>>
>> Sorry, to bother the developer group with this question but I posted 
>> twice on the user group and received zero replies. I was hoping one 
>> of you could offer some quick advice on this question.
>> ---------------------------------
>> I'm using TC 5.5.12.
>> Please look at this snippet from the server.xml that is distributed
>> with TC:
>>
>>  <!-- Define the default virtual host
>>        Note: XML Schema validation will not work with Xerces 2.2.
>>    -->
>>   <Host name="localhost" appBase="webapps"
>>    unpackWARs="true" autoDeploy="true"
>>    xmlValidation="false" xmlNamespaceAware="false">
>>
>>
>> Can anyone tell me what the 'xmlValidation' attribute on <Host> is 
>> for?
>> I realize it has something to do with "XML validation", but what XML 
>> is
>> it referring to? Is it the corresponding web.xml?
>
> Yes it is.
>
> And how does the
>> 'xmlNamespaceAware' attribute fit in?
>
> You can decide to validate with or without namespace.
>
>>
>> And what's the comment about the Xerces 2.2 parser?
>
> For a long time, Xerces was broken/buggy when used in Tomcat.
>
> 'm using Sun's JDK
>> 1.5.0. Does it use Xerces internally?
>
> Yes it does.


Thanks for the mostly useless reply. I was hoping (silly me) that since 
the 'xmlValidation' attribute is completely undocumented 
(http://tomcat.apache.org/tomcat-5.5-doc/config/host.html), one of the 
Tomcat programmers could go into more detail about whether it works and 
any sublties involved in its use (e.g., any JDK dependecies). Setting 
it to 'true' results in a lot of stack traces when validating my simple 
web.xml.

Here's something that illustrates the sloppiness of Tomcat programmers:

I installed a fresh copy of TC 5.5.12 (using JDK 1.5.0 on Win XP). I 
went into the server.xml that is distributed with TC and changed the 
'xmlValidation' attribute value to "true" on the <Host> attribute. What 
do you think happened? I got tons of meaningless stack traces. This 
tells me one of two things -- either the sloppy Tomcat open sores 
programmers released an invalid web.xml that doesn't validate *OR* that 
the 'xmlValidation' functionality is broken.

The fact that Tomcat 5.5.12 was released with this very basic (admit 
it, it's not a subtle issue) problem indicates to me the poor state of 
testing the Tomcat programmers must do at a system level.


>
>>
>> When I set the 'xmlValidation' attribute to 'true' I get a big stack
>> trace. One would think it might be appropriate to offer a nice error
>> message describing the problem.
>
> Blame Xerces ;-). XML error are not always easy to discover.


You say that the lousy XML error messages are something I should "blame 
on Xerces". That response is a lazy copout which is *SO TYPICAL* of the 
arrogant programmers working on open sores projects. I don't blame the 
error messages on Xerces, I blame them on lazy, sloppy open sores 
Tomcat programmers -- too lazy to test even basic aspects of their 
system (like XML validation), too lazy to keep the documentation of 
their product up to date, too lazy to GENERATE VALID, MEANINGFUL ERROR 
MESSAGES rather than just dumping a stack trace from Xerces, too lazy 
to look into any problems that don't interest them. (Hey, they're not 
getting paid, why should they bother with things that don't interest 
them? -- That seems to be the Open Source Programmer's Manifesto).


>>
>> I've looked at the latest TC documentation for <Host> and it makes 
>> no
>> mention of the 'xmlValidation' attribute:
>> http://tomcat.apache.org/tomcat-5.5-doc/config/host.html
>
> That's a problem. I will take a look.
>
>>
>> Can someone please explain these two attributes? My web.xml is 
>> getting
>> unwieldy and I'd like to start validating it.
>
> In short, set those two values to true. If you are seeing exception, 
> then it means your web.xml is not properly written. Try using 
> Netbeans/Eclipse (or any IDE). It is much more easy.
>


Another lazy copout!! Even the web.xml that is distributed w/Tomcat 
does not validate! Did you even test this before you replied to my note 
or did you just assume the user was at fault???


When someone criticizes the poor state of an open sores project (as I 
am doing now), the typical response from the open sores programmer is 
to shift responsibility to the user -- the user is often told to dig 
through the change logs or browse the forum archives or even to fix the 
bug/documentation themselves instead of "complaining". What an 
unprofessional, lazy attitude from programmers! The open sores 
programmers try to cast *their* laziness as the user's laziness for 
"not digging deeply enough" to resolve their own problem, or even 
fixing the problem themselves by going into the source code. The fact 
that the Tomcat User mailing list often receives over 150 messages a 
day is more a testament to Tomcat's crappy documentation than to its 
popularity.

Yes, yes, I know Tomcat is "not for me". You're damned right. I'm happy 
to pay money for quality. I guess Tomcat bares out the old adage, "you 
get what you pay for".


---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@tomcat.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@tomcat.apache.org