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From "Bob Bronson" <rbronson1...@yahoo.com>
Subject Re: Persistent "xmlValidation" Problem
Date Fri, 04 Nov 2005 05:26:22 GMT

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Frank W. Zammetti" <fzlists@omnytex.com>
To: "Tomcat Developers List" <dev@tomcat.apache.org>
Cc: <tomcat-dev@jakarta.apache.org>
Sent: Thursday, November 03, 2005 10:53 PM
Subject: Re: Persistent "xmlValidation" Problem


> I'm just guessing here, and maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think this 
> post is going to get you a whole lot of help in answering your 
> questions.
>
> Maybe it will, I don't know, but I'm thinking not.
>
> Frank




Who cares? I'm through w/TC. Good riddence.





> Bob Bronson wrote:
>> Comments below, for any of you who care....
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeanfrancois Arcand" 
>> <jfarcand@apache.org>
>> To: "Tomcat Developers List" <dev@tomcat.apache.org>
>> Cc: <tomcat-dev@jakarta.apache.org>
>> Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2005 9:11 AM
>> Subject: Re: Persistent "xmlValidation" Problem
>>
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> Bob Bronson wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hello,
>>>>
>>>> Sorry, to bother the developer group with this question but I 
>>>> posted twice on the user group and received zero replies. I was 
>>>> hoping one of you could offer some quick advice on this question.
>>>> ---------------------------------
>>>> I'm using TC 5.5.12.
>>>> Please look at this snippet from the server.xml that is 
>>>> distributed
>>>> with TC:
>>>>
>>>>  <!-- Define the default virtual host
>>>>        Note: XML Schema validation will not work with Xerces 2.2.
>>>>    -->
>>>>   <Host name="localhost" appBase="webapps"
>>>>    unpackWARs="true" autoDeploy="true"
>>>>    xmlValidation="false" xmlNamespaceAware="false">
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Can anyone tell me what the 'xmlValidation' attribute on <Host> is

>>>> for?
>>>> I realize it has something to do with "XML validation", but what 
>>>> XML is
>>>> it referring to? Is it the corresponding web.xml?
>>>
>>>
>>> Yes it is.
>>>
>>> And how does the
>>>
>>>> 'xmlNamespaceAware' attribute fit in?
>>>
>>>
>>> You can decide to validate with or without namespace.
>>>
>>>>
>>>> And what's the comment about the Xerces 2.2 parser?
>>>
>>>
>>> For a long time, Xerces was broken/buggy when used in Tomcat.
>>>
>>> 'm using Sun's JDK
>>>
>>>> 1.5.0. Does it use Xerces internally?
>>>
>>>
>>> Yes it does.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks for the mostly useless reply. I was hoping (silly me) that 
>> since
>> the 'xmlValidation' attribute is completely undocumented
>> (http://tomcat.apache.org/tomcat-5.5-doc/config/host.html), one of 
>> the
>> Tomcat programmers could go into more detail about whether it works 
>> and
>> any sublties involved in its use (e.g., any JDK dependecies). 
>> Setting
>> it to 'true' results in a lot of stack traces when validating my 
>> simple
>> web.xml.
>>
>> Here's something that illustrates the sloppiness of Tomcat 
>> programmers:
>>
>> I installed a fresh copy of TC 5.5.12 (using JDK 1.5.0 on Win XP). I
>> went into the server.xml that is distributed with TC and changed the
>> 'xmlValidation' attribute value to "true" on the <Host> attribute. 
>> What
>> do you think happened? I got tons of meaningless stack traces. This
>> tells me one of two things -- either the sloppy Tomcat open sores
>> programmers released an invalid web.xml that doesn't validate *OR* 
>> that
>> the 'xmlValidation' functionality is broken.
>>
>> The fact that Tomcat 5.5.12 was released with this very basic (admit
>> it, it's not a subtle issue) problem indicates to me the poor state 
>> of
>> testing the Tomcat programmers must do at a system level.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> When I set the 'xmlValidation' attribute to 'true' I get a big 
>>>> stack
>>>> trace. One would think it might be appropriate to offer a nice 
>>>> error
>>>> message describing the problem.
>>>
>>>
>>> Blame Xerces ;-). XML error are not always easy to discover.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> You say that the lousy XML error messages are something I should 
>> "blame
>> on Xerces". That response is a lazy copout which is *SO TYPICAL* of 
>> the
>> arrogant programmers working on open sores projects. I don't blame 
>> the
>> error messages on Xerces, I blame them on lazy, sloppy open sores
>> Tomcat programmers -- too lazy to test even basic aspects of their
>> system (like XML validation), too lazy to keep the documentation of
>> their product up to date, too lazy to GENERATE VALID, MEANINGFUL 
>> ERROR
>> MESSAGES rather than just dumping a stack trace from Xerces, too 
>> lazy
>> to look into any problems that don't interest them. (Hey, they're 
>> not
>> getting paid, why should they bother with things that don't interest
>> them? -- That seems to be the Open Source Programmer's Manifesto).
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>>
>>>> I've looked at the latest TC documentation for <Host> and it makes

>>>> no
>>>> mention of the 'xmlValidation' attribute:
>>>> http://tomcat.apache.org/tomcat-5.5-doc/config/host.html
>>>
>>>
>>> That's a problem. I will take a look.
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Can someone please explain these two attributes? My web.xml is 
>>>> getting
>>>> unwieldy and I'd like to start validating it.
>>>
>>>
>>> In short, set those two values to true. If you are seeing 
>>> exception, then it means your web.xml is not properly written. Try 
>>> using Netbeans/Eclipse (or any IDE). It is much more easy.
>>>
>>
>>
>> Another lazy copout!! Even the web.xml that is distributed w/Tomcat
>> does not validate! Did you even test this before you replied to my 
>> note
>> or did you just assume the user was at fault???
>>
>>
>> When someone criticizes the poor state of an open sores project (as 
>> I
>> am doing now), the typical response from the open sores programmer 
>> is
>> to shift responsibility to the user -- the user is often told to dig
>> through the change logs or browse the forum archives or even to fix 
>> the
>> bug/documentation themselves instead of "complaining". What an
>> unprofessional, lazy attitude from programmers! The open sores
>> programmers try to cast *their* laziness as the user's laziness for
>> "not digging deeply enough" to resolve their own problem, or even
>> fixing the problem themselves by going into the source code. The 
>> fact
>> that the Tomcat User mailing list often receives over 150 messages a
>> day is more a testament to Tomcat's crappy documentation than to its
>> popularity.
>>
>> Yes, yes, I know Tomcat is "not for me". You're damned right. I'm 
>> happy
>> to pay money for quality. I guess Tomcat bares out the old adage, 
>> "you
>> get what you pay for".
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> -- 
> Frank W. Zammetti
> Founder and Chief Software Architect
> Omnytex Technologies
> http://www.omnytex.com
> AIM: fzammetti
> Yahoo: fzammetti
> MSN: fzammetti@hotmail.com
>
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> 



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