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From Costin Manolache <>
Subject Re: Fedora "tomcat"
Date Sun, 16 May 2004 18:37:30 GMT
Remy Maucherat wrote:
> Costin Manolache wrote:
>> I don't know if you saw it, but Fedora ( the free Redhat distro ) 
>> includes now tomcat-4.1.27. I think this is a big problem and we should 
> Yes, I saw that FC 2 claims to bundle a lot of Java tools, including 
> Tomcat.

Ant actually works quite well, it seem to have a much better startup 
time, which is very nice for a tool like ant.

It is very nice they are bundling java tools and tomcat - but I thing it 
is a big problem ( for tomcat developers, fedora users and  tomcat users 
) that they distribute such a badly modified tomcat ( and call it tomcat)

> Yes. Well, it's the same problem for the kernel: IMO RH kernels are 
> usually rather bad.

I don't think it's a RedHat or Fedora issue - they are probably trying 
to do what's best for their project ( fedora ). I don't know of they are 
intentionally trying to create "lockin" by having their own variation or 
just thing they know better how tomcat layout should look like - but the 
real question is if we should care about it and do anything about it.

I have no doubt that other distributions will follow RedHat example and
start to include their own layouts and changes - look at httpd example ( 
you can hardly find 2 distributions to place the conf or htdocs files in 
the same place ). Well, that's probably more rant for my weblog..

If the release manager could take this extra work and include an RPM - 
or at least we could point to Henri's RPMs - and then we could make it 
clear that if a distribution wants to bundle tomcat, they should use the 
official RPM or something that is equivalent in layout, file permission, 
scripts, etc.

Probably this can't be enforced ( we don't have any trademark on the 
name ), but we can at least mention somewhere that what they distribute 
is not actually tomcat. I see this as a fork using the same name as the 
original product.

>> I don't know if you want to do something about it - Henri used to 
>> maintain RPMs for tomcat, maybe we should include links to them or the 
>> rpms themself in the distributions ( if you want tomcat RPM, please 
>> use this and not the hacked one in distributions ). The benefit will 
>> be that if a linux user has questions or problems - someone could tell 
>> them "look in $TOMCAT_HOME/conf/..." instead of "try to find where is 
>> the configuration file in your variation of tomcat".
> That could be a solution.
>> Opinions ? I'm beginning to understand Sun's position on Java 
>> redistribution and open source ....
> Well, I have to admit we would see a JDK with tons of custom patches in 
> RH, probably causing random problems :( OTOH, it would work great for 
> other distros (gentoo, debian, etc).

No, each distro will use it's own layout and no java program will work 
the same.

Sun does provide a RPM and .tgz that works on all distributions I tried. 
If the JDK itself can be made cross-distribution, I don't see why we 
couldn't have a binary package that could be installed on all 
distributions. I think there are even tools to convert from .rpm to .deb 
and .tgz - to support the other package formats.

It is absurd to have one package for each variant using RPM, with 
different layouts and content.


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