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From Remy Maucherat <r...@apache.org>
Subject Re: Fedora "tomcat"
Date Sun, 16 May 2004 18:51:31 GMT
Costin Manolache wrote:
> Ant actually works quite well, it seem to have a much better startup 
> time, which is very nice for a tool like ant.

Yes, for Ant, startup time is critical, so native compilation is great.

> It is very nice they are bundling java tools and tomcat - but I thing it 
> is a big problem ( for tomcat developers, fedora users and  tomcat users 
> ) that they distribute such a badly modified tomcat ( and call it tomcat)

But for a daemon, which is often more complex and needs to be really 
reliable, it would need more time to mature :(

> I don't think it's a RedHat or Fedora issue - they are probably trying 
> to do what's best for their project ( fedora ). I don't know of they are 
> intentionally trying to create "lockin" by having their own variation or 
> just thing they know better how tomcat layout should look like - but the 
> real question is if we should care about it and do anything about it.
> 
> I have no doubt that other distributions will follow RedHat example and
> start to include their own layouts and changes - look at httpd example ( 
> you can hardly find 2 distributions to place the conf or htdocs files in 
> the same place ). Well, that's probably more rant for my weblog..

Good point.

> If the release manager could take this extra work and include an RPM - 
> or at least we could point to Henri's RPMs - and then we could make it 
> clear that if a distribution wants to bundle tomcat, they should use the 
> official RPM or something that is equivalent in layout, file permission, 
> scripts, etc.

How hard would it be to automate it ?
The problem is that the script must be run from Windows to generate the 
installer.

> Probably this can't be enforced ( we don't have any trademark on the 
> name ), but we can at least mention somewhere that what they distribute 
> is not actually tomcat. I see this as a fork using the same name as the 
> original product.

Yes, I think the ASF has very little control of the usage in most cases.

>> That could be a solution.
>>
>>> Opinions ? I'm beginning to understand Sun's position on Java 
>>> redistribution and open source ....
>>
>> Well, I have to admit we would see a JDK with tons of custom patches 
>> in RH, probably causing random problems :( OTOH, it would work great 
>> for other distros (gentoo, debian, etc).
> 
> No, each distro will use it's own layout and no java program will work 
> the same.
> 
> Sun does provide a RPM and .tgz that works on all distributions I tried. 
> If the JDK itself can be made cross-distribution, I don't see why we 
> couldn't have a binary package that could be installed on all 
> distributions. I think there are even tools to convert from .rpm to .deb 
> and .tgz - to support the other package formats.

True, their stuff works on every distribution.

> It is absurd to have one package for each variant using RPM, with 
> different layouts and content.

Indeed :(

The issue has been around forever, which means that the vendors haven't 
done much to solve the issue. And since all Lunus cares about is the 
kernel ;)
(good thing some unifying has been going on in the UI department, 
otherwise, I can't imagine the mess it would be ;) )

Rémy


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