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From Costin Manolache <cmanola...@yahoo.com>
Subject Re: [VOTE] minimal JSR 154 only distribution
Date Wed, 11 Dec 2002 06:55:16 GMT
Jeanfrancois Arcand wrote:

> 
> 
> Costin Manolache wrote:
> 
>>Jeanfrancois Arcand wrote:
>>
>>  
>>
>>>Jon Scott Stevens wrote:
>>>
>>>    
>>>
>>>>on 2002/12/10 3:15 PM, "Costin Manolache" <cmanolache@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> 
>>>>
>>>>      
>>>>
>>>>>Yes - your admin tool argument doesn't make sense. You can easily
>>>>>precompile the admintool ( and we should do it anyway ) and
>>>>>run it in the JSR154-only container - if you want to.
>>>>>   
>>>>>
>>>>>        
>>>>>
>>>>I thought that you need Jasper in order to run JSP's (compiled or not).
>>>>
>>>>      
>>>>
>>>Yes, you need them since even if the classes are compiled, they are
>>>still having reference to org.apache.jasper.*
>>>    
>>>
>>
>>No, you don't.
>>
>>You can just copy jasper-runtime.jar in WEB-INF/lib and you're done.
>>
>>At least that used to work in 3.3 - I don't see any reason it'll
>>not work ( except maybe some bugs ).
>>
> Is Jasper = Runtime + Compiler (jasper-runtime.jar +
> jasper-compiler.jar)? I was under the impression that when we discuss
> about removing Jasper, it was both part. Not only the compiler
> part....If it's only the compiler part, then yes you can still run the
> Admin Tool.

Yes, jasper=runtime + compiler.

Last time I checked ( and I know no particular reason why this wouldn't
work now ) the runtime can be included in the container - or it
can be included in WEB-INF/lib for each precompiled app.

Jasper doesn't particulary care where the runtime is located. 

A JSP is translated to a servlet. Jasper runtime is just one library
that the generated servlet uses. 

You _can_ ( at least with the older jasper - and probably you can
easily get the current one to work, if it doesn't already ) run
jasper generated ( pre-compiled ) servlets with any servlet container ( 
weblogic, whatever ) - as long as the container doesn't include
an older version of jasper ( that would mess the class loader).

The real issue with Jon's proposal is not the fact that admin ( or 
any jsp ) won't run in the JSR154 distribution. It's more an issue 
of attitude. 

As a note - my proposal for minimal container ( that I consider now
dead - I think the multi-profile solution is much better ) did not
include the jasper compiler either. You don't need jasper compiler
or javac on an embeded or production server to run JSPs. 

By including the runtime I didn't actually meant the current runtime,
which could be easily included in the webapp by the precompiler, but
whatever tomcat-specific optimizations we'll do ( I made a number
of proposals about using the lower-level tomcat constructs for
output, etc - didn't get too much enthusiasm, but I still think
that it is the right way and can make JSPs much faster than the
equivalent servlets ). Assuming such optimizations are done - they'll
have to be included in the minimal container. 

Since right now there's no tomcat-specific optimization in jasper - 
my minimal proposal would be almost the same as the JSR154-only
container, however it keeps the door open ( and includes the runtime
as a matter of convenience ).

Costin 











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