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From Pier Fumagalli <>
Subject Re: [VOTE] New Committer Dan Sandberg
Date Sat, 25 May 2002 00:09:48 GMT
Dan Sandberg <> wrote:

> Granting that I'm not as experienced with open-source collaboration as
> the rest of you are,

Don't worry, I'm here since 1997 and I'm probably the most clueless of all
freaks... :)

> my intuition is that the easier it is for people to
> make changes to the code-base ( assuming their contributions are
> reviewed ) the faster the code-base will improve and bugs will be
> eliminated.
> Again, this is contigent on the belief that contributions will be
> reviewed by somebody for security, bugs, and code quality.

This is absolutely true. Fresh blood is what we _need_. I'm not arguing with
it, and I'm not arguing with the fact that it's just _easier_ to have CVS

One example from somewhere else, I have a small patch for APR, the Apache
Portable Runtime, I just need to change a "..." (quote) in a [...] (square
bracket) in an M4 macro because it might break stuff somewhere (it seems
that all M4 versions actually interpret it in the same way, but there's a
slight difference). This is on 3 lines of their "", and I
submitted it 3 months ago? _noone_ committed it yet, once every week I
resubmit it, but it's such a tiny thing that noone actually cares to commit
(I would do exactly the same). If I had CVS access I would do it myself (I
can actually "grant" me cvs access, commit that patch and be gone, and I'm
sure noone would complain), but...

> As for the question that Pier asked: How much responsibility am I
> willing to take on?
> I am willing to address bugs, and review contributions to the SSI code.
> I would usually not vote on committers unless I >know< that they should
> be + or -, which will be rare.
> Similarly, I would vote on release plans, the future of the project,
> etc., if and only if I feel I had something to add in those areas, which
> will probably be rare.

Great, that's what we expect from committers, I'm going to strike my -1 and
make it a +1, but please don't let me down and disappear in 2 months! :) :)

>> If you want to know the real price of becoming a commiter - it's
>> loosing all control over the code you write, having to play flame wars
>> and grow a thick skin. And you may spend many weekends doing work
>> that is just thrown away.
> I'm thick-headed and thick-skinned, so this is not a problem.   I'll
> skip on the flame wars though. :)

Too bad, I would like to have a flame buddy from time to time...

>> Are you interested? I don't want to sound bad, but hey
>> everything comes at a price :) :) :)
> I don't view committer status as a trophy.  I just want to fix things
> that are broken.  Having commit access makes this easier for me and for
> everyone else.

I do view committer status as a trophy, probably because I had to put sweat
and blood in getting it years ago, and still, I'm struggling to get one on
APR, or on HTTPD, I help out when I can, I play with the big boys, one day
someone will just say "I'd like Pier to be a committer", and that will be
one of the best days in my life... But don't worry that on that day there
won't be anyone who could say "who's this guy?"...

>> If you want my advice - create a sourceforge account, do all the work
>> on SSI there, and have fun. ( and maybe give access to other
>> tomcat commiters who are interested to work on SSI ).
> Not sure how this helps.  If I understand the suggestion correctly, this
> is equivalent to forking the SSI code, which definitely won't help the
> development process.

No, it won't and frankly it's something I wouldn't have wanted to hear from
a committer, a seasoned one, and a PMC member. I am trying, struggling to
build something, like most of us I'm not paid for what I do here (I used to
be, and I can tell you, now that I'm out, I wouldn't go back).

Just saying "get off to SourceForge and build your thing over there" doesn't
go around in my book...

> I just read Pier's proposal, and I agree with him.

Cheers, thanks, I'm going to waive my -1 so that you can vote +1 on my
proposal, then :) :) :)

> Sorry to have instigated all this, but I suppose it's something that
> would have had to be dealt with sooner or later...

You're right, it's just a "casus belli" as Romans might say. Now that the
discussion is undergoing (I hope), I would like to welcome you to the big
PHAT Jakarta Community, and please, as a (rejected before and then welcomed)
committer, keep your thoughts coming...


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