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From "Craig R. McClanahan" <>
Subject Re: MinTC, "terrible rudeness", persistence
Date Fri, 19 Apr 2002 03:37:20 GMT
Personally, I don't have any problem with occasional announcements of
interesting things related to Tomcat on this list, and MinTC certainly
qualifies as "interesting" in my book!

As for the community as a whole, consensus usually forms rapidly when the
issue is aired publicly on the mailing list (instead of directly to the
poster).  That way, we'd quickly find out whether the person complaining
was really voicing a common sentiment, or out smoking something.  Does
whoever was concerned about this want to fess up and start that

Even if the consensus is that these things were off topic, one way to
certainly make them on topic would be a discussion of whether you'd want
to propose contributing MinTC to the standard distribution (so that it
could be built from the same source repository, and probably packaged
separately) -- either now or when you get a little further along at
complete success in passing all the tests.

I'd also like to take the opportunity to thank you publicly for your many
contributions and suggestions -- one of the best things about my
experience with Tomcat has always been seeing the people who care deeply
enough about it to help improve its quality, instead of just whining and


On Thu, 18 Apr 2002, Christopher K.  St.  John wrote:

> Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 19:58:26 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Christopher K.  St.  John <>
> Reply-To: Tomcat Developers List <>
> To:
> Subject: MinTC, "terrible rudeness", persistence
>  I've been informed by private email that I am "terribly
> rude" for making announcements of MinTC releases on the
> tomcat-dev list, and that I should not make any futher
> announcements.
>  So that's it then? I've been kicked off tomcat-dev (how
> does that work on an open source project!?) because I've
> offended someone by writing code they don't like!?!?
>  This is a bit of a problem for me, as MinTC is, technically,
> a version of Catalina, and should be a perfectly appropriate
> topic for tomcat-dev. Especially when it's one message every
> few weeks.
>  MinTC is certainly not a mainline version of Tomcat 4, but
> it shares a significant amount of (unforked) code, and that
> makes it important to seek a close relationship with the
> people maintaining the codebase. It's a bit like sharing a
> telephone booth with an 800 lb gorilla: it's a bit much to
> hope to have any influence over what phone calls are made,
> but at least you can hope to make your presence know so that
> you don't get sat on.
>  It's a dilemma: there's no point in having an antagonistic
> relationship with the core Tomcat developers, that's worse
> than nothing. But good grief! This is an opensource project!
> MinTC is a version of Catalina, where the heck else am I
> going to discuss it? I'm contributing bug fixes and code back
> to the core implementation, I'm helping to clean up the core
> interfaces, I'm using the Catalina code, I'm doing documentation
> work, but I'm not welcome? That seems so strange, and so sad.
>  I'd like to get some feedback from someone other than the
> person who wrote me privately. Craig? Could you give me an
> opinion please? You seem to have the moral leadership role
> here. Anybody else, please chime in. I'm horrified that I might
> have been being unknowingly rude, but I'm at a loss to explain
> how exactly I've caused such awful offense. I honestly don't
> get it.
>  Thanks, and please, as you think about your response, keep in
> mind that the Catalina proposal docs specifically talk about
> people doing exactly what MinTC does under the Catalina umbrella.
>  Thanks, and sorry for any inadvertant rudeness,
> -cks
> --
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