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From Loïc Lefèvre <llefe...@fivia.com>
Subject RE: [VOTE] Sources in Binary Distributions
Date Fri, 03 Aug 2001 10:38:27 GMT
It's YOUR point of view... not mine, sorry :(


> -----Message d'origine-----
> De : Pier P. Fumagalli [mailto:pier@betaversion.org]
> Envoyé : vendredi 3 août 2001 12:02
> À : tomcat-dev@jakarta.apache.org
> Objet : Re: [VOTE] Sources in Binary Distributions
>
>
> Loïc Lefèvre at llefevre@fivia.com wrote:
>
> > [X] - +1 Remove the sources [I will help in the process, meaning do the
job]
> > [ ] - +0 Remove the sources [I can't help, won't help]
> > [ ] - -0 Leave the sources [But since I don't volunteer this is not
binding]
> > [ ] - -1 Are you nuts? Sources are there and there have to remain.
> >
> > Comments: (required for -1)
> >
> > Yes, I've changed my mind.
>
> Well... AFAIK it doesn't really matter as you don't have commit access...
>

Thanks to tell me that, I forget I haven't...

>
>
> > But I think, the first thing I would do when I'll look at the source,
(to
> > understand what is done in terms of code, javadoc not clear some
times...) is
> > to unzip the .jar file then use jad to decompile the desired .class (as
I do
> > for the JDK).
>
> SO WHAT'S THE FUCKING POINT OF REMOVING THE SOURCE? TO MAKE YOU USE JAD?
>
> > example:
> > The students who don't have internet at home and must download it at
school
> > for their "study-projects" could be interested to have the source too
(not
> > return to school and download another package)...
>
> Now I don't really get the point of that +1...

I think you don't read ALL the mails you receive, if you look carfully,
you'll see I wanted to keep the sources in the package...
The answer I give here is IRONIC ;)
At the end of this mail is a precedent mail I wrote...

>
> > An other thing could be a more advanced interface to download the tomcat
> > package:
> >
> > Tomcat download:
> >
> > Version  [3.2.3  |v]           <--- a combo-box
> > Package: (o) bin + source      <---
> >          ( ) bin               <--- some radio
> >          ( ) source            <--- buttons
> >
> > [Submit]
> >
> > and I will help in the process, meaning do the job, if one want ;)
>
> Don't even think about a select-choose-submit interface. I swear I'm going
> to get angry if I see something like it.
>
>     Pier

Well perhaps but remember... DOS -> Windows, bash -> KDE...

Loïc Lefèvre

############################################################################
########
OLD MAIL
############################################################################
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First, I'm very impressed that someone answer me in this
mailing-list (I mean DEV).

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
------
Christopher Cain wrote:
>
>
> Loïc Lefèvre wrote:
> >
> > In my mind, there is one argument to let the source code in the
binaries:
> >
> >      "To enhance myself tomcat when nothing else can help you."
>
> That's what the source distribution is for :-)

I know ;), and that's good!

>
> > I (and I'm NOT alone) have encountered many problems using Tomcat and
> > thus there are good answers to good faqs, I had to resolve some
problems...
>
> I'm sorry to hear that your've encountered *many* problems with Tomcat.
> If by problems you mean bugs, I'd be interested in knowing which
> versions you've had difficulties with so that we can address the issues.

My version is: Tomcat 3.2.3 *final* downloaded the day it has been released.
(No previous, no milestone..., just the final one)

> Are we talking about previous milestones, or the more recent betas? Are
> we talking the 3.x branches or 4.0? I know I speak for all Tomcat
> developers when I say that we want to produce the finest server on the
> planet, and if people are having what they consider to be excessive
> problems, then we'd love to hear about it so that we can build a better
> product.

And I report my problems for these reasons!

>
> If you're talking instead about usage and configuration problems, then
> that's a documentation problem on our part. I know the docs are not what
> they could be, or even *should* be, but if you follow the dev list then
> you know that we are working on it. I think you'll see a vastly improved
> documentation bundle for both branches in the next few months. Just hang
> in there ;-)

Yes I've encoutered configuration problems, one week spent to finally see
that my WEB-INF directory (I developp under windows NT and test under linux)
were Web-inf in windows explorer but web-inf under DOS! So when deploying,
under linux (which is case sensitiv) nothing worked. I think a little
remark in the doc could help ;)

>
> > (and I've got some not resolved...)
>
> If you mean bugs, then I hope you're reporting them in Bugzilla, right?

Hemm no, here and in user mailing-list, I don't know the process to report
bugs
on Bugzilla nor have the time (for now, I have to migrate from JServ to
Tomcat
and I've already spent two weeks...).

In fact, I've been on the bug report page (tomcat one) but found the web
interface
very complex (I'm french and a "bugreport.html.fr" could be great ;))

The last bug I have is about cookies, I've got 4 pictures describing the
HTTP-packets
I receive and send under Apache JServ and Tomcat and strangely:

- Under JServ:
  - I receive cookies
  - I can send these cookies

- Under Tomcat:
  - I receive 2 cookies (header Set-Cookie + Set-Cookie2)
  - I (my browser, IE 5.0) don't send any cookie.
    Session tracking doesn't work :((((((((((((((((((((((((((.............

If you want, I can send you these pictures to see by yourself.
Is that a bug (Tomcat don't write correctly the cookies) or a configuration
problem
(IE doesn't support Set-Cookie2? and I have to upgrade to 5.5 or 6beta) I
don't know.

>
> http://nagoya.apache.org/bugzilla/index.html
>

Thanks for the url :)

> > and without the sources I would not have choose Tomcat...
> > Consider I'm a developper responsible of the migration from Apache JServ
> > to Tomcat, there are 9 other people who will hear about tomcat... so now
> > Imagine:
> >
> > me  -> 9
> > 10  -> 90
> > 100 -> 900!!!
> >
> > and I work in a little enterprise!
> > So think about it...
>
> I don't think you'll get any arguments here, on an Open Source developer
> list, about the importance of having the source code available. I just
> don't think that anyone is well-served by having the source code crammed
> down their throats. Some people believe in Open Source, and they like
> the fact that it is available for review if something should arise, but
> they aren't necessarily interested in having it forced on them. If they
> chose to downloaded the binary release, with the link to the source
> release right beside it, then they obviously didn't necessarily want the
> source code at this time. If they want to at any future time, there's
> little chance they don't know where it can be had. I just think it's
> rude to include the entire source tree when someone explicitly chose the
> binaries, since they obviously had their reasons from not clicking on
> the source link.

I agree but I thought about advertisment here and the more people would be
informed about Tomcat Open source devloppment the more there will be
devlopper
to work... if for these 900 people, 10 decide to join the jakarta project,
I think it's better than nothing ;)

>
> In any case, I'm glad to hear that you recommend Tomcat, and I hope that
> you'll see most of your problems resolved in the coming months. With a
> vastly improved documenatation bundle, and with both trees closing in on
> an official release, I think the future looks bright indeed!
>
> Regards,
>
> Christopher

I think the future is brighter than you say...

Regards too,

Loïc Lefèvre

note: The problem I resolved were (I don't know...) RedirectMatch rule under
Apache
1.3.12 + mod_rewrite module, you can look at:
http://mikal.org/interests/java/tomcat/archive/view?mesg=37135




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