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From "Burgess, Jay" <>
Subject RE: 'Just say no to JSP' - Pointer to JSP list
Date Fri, 06 Apr 2001 19:13:10 GMT
I sent Paulo my thoughts offline, and he responded as below.  You can find
what you need for "JSP-INTEREST@JAVA.SUN.COM" at:


-----Original Message-----
From: Paulo Gaspar []
Sent: Friday, April 06, 2001 2:22 PM
To: Burgess, Jay
Subject: RE: 'Just say no to JSP'

Could you please post this and the address of that list in the Tomcat-Dev
list? That seems to be the way to fix this.
-----Original Message-----
From: Burgess, Jay []
Sent: Friday, April 06, 2001 20:52
To: ''
Subject: RE: 'Just say no to JSP'

I would argue that the JSP-INTEREST list is where JSP discussions should
take place. Maybe we should keep the TOMCAT-DEV list focused on Tomcat


-----Original Message----- 
From: Paulo Gaspar [] 
Sent: Friday, April 06, 2001 2:03 PM 
Subject: RE: 'Just say no to JSP' 


If you think one should not discuss the merits of JSP here, you should 
not take part on it even if to defend JSP. 

If you agree we should talk about the pros and cons of JSPs, it is hard 
to talk about the cons of JSP in a constructive way without pointing 
alternatives. Can one just say it is bad without pointing alternatives 
and still give worthy input? 

Or do you just want to talk about the pros? 

Clearly, there are some problems with JSPs. Supporting a clear 
separation between logic (scripting) and presentation (templating) is 
not easy to enforce with JSPs. And this is a discussion going on in 
many forums. 

Now, JSPs are nice for scripting stuff (when you want to code and see 
the result with no compiling/restarts). I even thought of using JSPs 
for the scripting with Velocity for templating!!! And this is not such 
new idea since there are people using JSPs with XSLT for the same 

But XSLT just makes things too hard. Too much cost for not enough 
profit. I just converted a XSLT based application to Velocity and I 
sure know what I am talking about. 

Maybe JSPs just need something extra for the templating side. Maybe 
JSPs can learn that from Velocity/WebMacro template engines. 

And this list is one of the best spots to talk about this. The right 
people read this. * Isn't Tomcat the reference JSP implementation? * 

Have fun, 
Paulo Gaspar 

> -----Original Message----- 
> From: Earl.Stutes@EAS.San-Jose.CA.US 
> [mailto:Earl.Stutes@EAS.San-Jose.CA.US] 
> Sent: Friday, April 06, 2001 18:48 
> Why has the tomcat-dev list become a Velocity advocacy list?? 
> Isn't the purpose of this list supposed to be for communation between 
> Tomcat developers?  Is velocity recruiting or something? 
> =eas= 

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