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From "Pier P. Fumagalli" <>
Subject Re: Fuck It.
Date Thu, 21 Dec 2000 11:37:59 GMT
Jon Stevens <> wrote:

> To: Costin and the rest of you who commented.
> You obviously know what is best and have shown me that I simply have my head
> up my ass and I'm just a complete jerk and I should stop now and just let
> you do whatever you want.
> I give up. All of my previous -1 votes are now +1.
> Have fun.

It's sad, my friend, to see you giving up like this. We've traveled a long
way together, from my very first steps in open-source land in January 1998,
to our marvelous meeting at the first ApacheCON in October 1998, the Jakarta
room meeting, all JavaONEs, and all we did together to bring this project
where it is right now.

It's sad, because you are the real light who guided my path from Italy to
here, from being a nobody to be somehow recognized by this community.

And it's even worse because you are FUCKING RIGHT! It makes me puke to read
comments like the one that James Cook sent "My personal impression of you is
in the toilet now", or Gomez Henri "IBM == and SUN ==". Where were you KIDS when we were fighting the big
corporations to have them looking into open source, to contribute
significant parts of their technologies to the Foundation, where were you
while we were changing this world? You were home, and one day, you looked up
on your browser, saw a thing called Jakarta and started weening if things
weren't as nice as you wanted them.

Now, I believe that _I_ deserve some respect, and even if all your comments
were not directly targeted to me, they hurt as if they were. Jon, you might
be annoying and obnoxious at times, but those kids don't even care about
reading what you're writing...

What do I see? A fucking mess, and help me God, because now I'm not shutting
up until this whole shit is solved.

Let's start from the always recurring problem, Tomcat 3.3: I'm so glad to
hear that people like Paul Frieden (the only person that did put some salt
in what he said) are using Tomcat 3.2 in their products. That makes me feel
alive, that makes the work we made in the last three year worth something.

You're completely right Paul. I don't want you to loose one single cent of
your investment. Being a member of the ASF, you have my personal warranty
that it won't happen. I'm not asking to drop any kind of support from the
3.x tree, neither to close the bug-fixing process. But let's see what is
_exactly_ happening: from what I see in the commit messages, it seems to me
that even if on an evolutionary track, the container structure is completely
different between 3.2 and 3.3. The architecture is almost as different as
3.2 and 4.0. What does it mean? That if you, Paul, are going to pick up 3.3
as your next servlet engine, you will probably have to fight with more or
less the same quantity of issues you would have to deal with if you picked
up 4.0.

So, here we are: bugs... Let's see a little bit what's happening in the 3.x
tree. Who is actually FIXING the 3.2 bugs and trying to get a better
container on the old architecture? Not certainly Costin, Nacho or the
others, they are all so busy in rearchitecting the container, and
back-porting features from 4.0 that they don't have time to maintain the old
codebase. Kudos go to Craig, and his team (apart from me, since I'm working
on other sides of the code in 4.0) to find those bugs and fix them. And of
course he's doing that while he's trying to get 4.0 out of the door.

Sorry Costin, but I feel betrayed by you. Two weeks ago we had a pleasant
conversation in your office, and I was looking straight to your face when
you told me that 3.3 would have been a bug-fix and performance only update
of 3.2. This is not what's happening. You're not fixing them, you're
re-architecting a new container on the ashes of 3.2, but you are not doing
what you promised ME, you're not supporting your baby...

You're going against what we decided and agreed upon. You are loosing my
respect, my friend...

So, here I stand, my vote is a big -1 on a 3.3 as a newly architected
servlet container, +1 on fixing bugs on 3.2 (actually 3.2.1 since Craig
excellently pulled out all those security issues), +1 on improving
performances on 3.2.1 (and I don't care if it's going to be called 3.2.2,
3.3 or 3.9, fuck release numbers on 3.x) and a big +1 on Catalina as the
base servlet container for 4.0 no matter what this is our future, whether
you like it or not. All other containers, please wait for a 5.0.

And for once, so, my votes are in disagreement with you, Jon... :)

As one of the people behind the scenes since before each of you got here, I
believe my vote counts, and now, please prove me wrong.


Pier Fumagalli  <>  <>

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