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From Paul Speed <>
Subject Re: Tomcat, Catalina, and Java2
Date Tue, 11 Jul 2000 17:26:22 GMT wrote:
> > I'm a little surprised at the friendly infighting. Just for clarification,
> > is Catalina destined to be Tomcat 4.0, or is there a chance that Tomcat 3.x
> > could take that honor? I assume that this would come up to a vote amongst
> > the contributors, but for those of us that are writing future tools and
> > integration, it would be nice to know. When will this decision take place?
> >
> > I think it will come down to a case where there is no clear winner. It's the
> > classic design vs. performance question. I would be surprised if the more
> > componetized and better designed Catalina could outperform the more
> > evolutionary, but harder to learn, Tomcat. Then again, this is supposed to
> > be a reference platform, and design should win out.

To start,

	I hate to sound like a hippie or something, but why can't both
designs be good?  It would be extraordinary if someone was to determine
that some design was inherently "right" in a case like this.  They are
both too complicated to prove optimal by any mathematical means.

> I think all that's important is the design. Yes, catalina may be better
> documented and marketed, may have better support for other protocols, etc.

	Where this will come into play is how easy it is to add 
something new.  Since these are both open source projects, the path
of least resistence is likely to evolve faster.  Strides are being
made to improve Tomcat in this area which I think is great because it
is currently one of its bigger weaknesses.

> But in the end the better design does matter - and that's where tocmat3.x
> is (IMHO) better. Of course, you shouldn't believe me - use your own
> experience, try to understand the patterns used.

	At the minimum, I think Catalina is a great because its 
different.  Sometimes the only way to make progress is to break out
of a rut and see what works and what doesn't.

> After all, Jigsaw is a great server and servlet chaining ( in it's
> much better form as valves) is not a bad pattern, and maybe the model used
> by the IIS/NES/Apache is all wrong and all will adopt the new
> catalina design.

	It could be.  After all, it's possible that IIS and Apache 
did it that way because NES had already done it.  I'm all for trying
new patterns to see how they fly, as long as we are objective about
moving back if necessary.

> Even if catalina will have the same features and performance as tomcat
> 3.2, that doesn't mean it will be the perfect design - things may evolve
> in other directions.

	No design is perfect.  Or at least I haven't seen one yet.
They are all a balance between performance and maintainability.  And
the latter is very subjective to the environment.

> The only sure thing is that you'll allways have a better product.
> Costin

	Amen to that.

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