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From Daniel Rall <...@finemaltcoding.com>
Subject Re: [PROPOSAL] <Servlet> tag
Date Fri, 11 Feb 2000 23:12:05 GMT
> > SERVLET tag is part of the Servlet framework itself, rather than its JSP
> > extension.  (I'm not certain that the SERVLET tag is actually part of the formal
> > spec, but it *is* supported by the Java Web Server, which to date is the
> > official reference implementation for a Servlet engine.)

> ok, any specialized tags have absolutely no connection to the "servlet
> framework."  The Servlet spec has absolutely no mention of the content
> that is parses and is strictly a coding api.  The Java Web Server is a
> separate product written by Sun that uses the servlet api but is not any
> part of the servlet api.  JWS has a separate technology called jhtml
> that includes stuff like that and can parse general pages for SSI tags
> like the <servlet> tag.  --These JWS value adds have nothing to do with
> the servlet framework and are only JWS specific--

Okay, clarified.  It's *not* part of the Servlet API.  But it *is*
supported by many popular web servers and add on servlet engines
(including Apache through use of JSSI).  I would suggest that Tomcat
supports this as well, since I don't think that these other products are
going to deprecate the tag just because JSP is now available.  

Many sites that use servlets *do not use JSP* (see
http://www.sourcexchange.com or http://www.collab.net).  

If we are going to supply *the* servlet engine, it would be helpful to
support common extensions offered by other broadly used products, thus
facilitating the switch to Apache Tomcat by having these common
extensions available.  (Especially when they are as simple to implement
as the SERVLET tag.)

> Furthermore, the JWs has *NEVER* been the reference implementation of
> the servlet platform, the JSDK and JWSDK have been, and now tomcat is
> for Servlet 2.2 and JSP1.1.  

You're right, I didn't correctly remember what I had read.

  "Sun's Java Web Server (formerly called "Jeeves"), unofficially
considered 
  the reference implementation for how a servlet engine should support 
  servlets."  -- pg. 8, Java Servlet Programming by Jason Hunter,
O'Reilly

Of course the opperative word here is "unofficially."  My bad.

> > ...I usually don't believe in supporting mutliple interfaces.  But in
> > this case, I feel that an exception should be made.  The user would have to be
> > familiar with Java Server Pages to know about--and how to use--JSP:INCLUDE.  

> ...if the user can use tags
> like <servlet> then they can learn a tag that is now a standard part of
> the java platform for the enterprise.

See my other mail regarding data limitations in HTTP GET requests, and
above regarding the fact that not everyone uses JSP (or is willing to
switch to it).

> </rant>

I'm not trying to argue, so please don't rant at me.  I'm trying to have
a discussion.  Your input is obviously valuable (you pointed out several
things that I didn't know or was mistaken about).  I hope that you can
limit your rants in the future, as they greatly discourage my
participation in this project.  Thank you for your time and your efforts
to make this a world class piece of software.

Peace out.
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