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From: "Klaus Myrseth" <klaus.myrseth@infohwy.no>
To: <tomcat-dev@jakarta.apache.org>
Subject: RE: MS IIS and Apache feature war
Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 09:04:31 +0100
Message-ID: <00ef01bf5d9c$d2862030$040a0a0a@infohwy.no>
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Commented under each section (sorry for following the thread but i could not
help it :)

> -----Original Message-----
> From: root@universe.kendara.com [mailto:root@universe.kendara.com]On
> Behalf Of Kevin A. Burton
> Sent: 13. januar 2000 01:42
> To: tomcat-dev@jakarta.apache.org
> Subject: Re: MS IIS and Apache feature war
>
>
> Bill Ataras wrote:
> >
> > Just some thoughts here. I've been reading that MS is going after apache
> > market share by adding features to IIS (ASP etc).

I'm not scared, ASP has allways and will allways promote VBScript as the
language that work for most things (i dont even know why they have JScript
there, since it dont support evrything you can do with VBScript), and as
long as there is resistance about using ASP from developers (I made my first
WAP application there and it sucks for that, esp when it comes to code
reuse), i dont think customers will be advised to inplement anything there.
(Portability, freedom to choose your own products AFTER the web application
is done ...)

If a connector to TomCat is made for IIS, so customers can run IIS with
tomcat, you will likely see more ppl slowly migrating from IIS to Apache in
the long run, because they can do their web application development on a
portable module (and once again i have to bring up how much i love the 2.2
specs webapps :)...


> >
> > I think java is the clear direction on the server side. I think we
> > ultimately need to combine apache + java (jsp/servlets) as the "new
> > apache" or in a way that clearly says apache includes jsp/servlets by
> > default (not yet another mod). MS is very good at shaping a product's
> > image (marketing). Apache has a killer brand and is 1st in market share.
> > I'd hate to see that lost because the open source community is superior
> > technically, but can't or won't (shall I say it?) "market".
Why not a mod???
The user will not see the difference if Apache is preconfigured and shipped
with TomCat module installed as MS do with ASP and IIS, and if you do you
will still have one product not several to develop. There will allways be
people using TomCat for other platforms than Apache in the future. And there
will be LOTS, amongst other things because java.sun.com is linked into the
Jakarta pages, and because the apache.org is getting more and more known,
eaven amongst the MS users.

> >
> > I'm not saying add so much to apache that is crosses from web server to
> > app server, but certainly jsp/servlets are part of web server space...
> > and possibly jdbc with mysql - because what good are dynamic web pages
> > without decent persistence. Also add ssl in september when the rsa
> > patent expiires. (distribute from non-US site or something I don't
> > know).
> >
> > Just thoughts. Java can win on the server apache has been winning so
> > far, let's not drop the ball.
>
> Yes... but all this is IMO is marketing.  ASP is just a mod to IIS
> anyway... just distributed as part of the download.  There is no reason
> that we can't have them as separate projects and then packaging them
> together on DL.

Hehe nearly every platform run Apache as default webserver nowdays, so it
looks like marketing works for the Apache organisation :))))....And the last
reports i read was that Apache was gaining and IIS was loosing. As i
mentioned earlier, ppl is prolly starting to get tired of some of the
problems you get there when trying to use anything else than pure MS
producs. Hehe and you allways have that uptime discussion vs. cost pr day :)

I have to say that some of my claims here is subjective to some point, and i
hope i don't offend to many of you guys, but think about it. How many here
is running TomCat with IIS, it has to be a reason :)

PS. I hope the milestone build will be stable and the <%@ include works
properly...If it does I will ship a WAP application on java server pages on
TomCat in 14 days :)

(The customer loved the feature where i explained to them, they can migrate
from windows to linux without redeveloping the WAP application. Did i
mention how much i love the feature about the 2.2 specs web-app (hehe))
--
Klaus Myrseth
System Consultant - Java/WAP Department
(IIS-ASP portability whats that)
--