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From "Niketan Pansare" <npan...@us.ibm.com>
Subject Re: [PROPOSAL] R4ML Integration with SystemML
Date Fri, 22 Sep 2017 21:11:07 GMT

>>> As pointed out earlier, R4ML is not just R interface so it is based on
the earlier product of IBM on R and it has many product feature.
Also note that the pure ML Ctx and the cmd options for dml is not ideally
allow all the things user want to do in his ML code.
The solution could be to create wrapper to make user happy  . but we have
created those wrapper but those are in R and from user point for view it
feels that are just writing the R code
 If the ultimate goal is to have just MLCtx based R interface than I think
it undermines and R4ML value proposition.
(We can definitely just expose MLCtx api. However calling Logistic
Regression example just for the purpose of MLCtx won't be best) R4ML.mlogit
has better apis

May be we are not on same page.
(a) MLContext is not the only API, but an important one that needs to be
supported.
(b) Like R4ML, our mllearn wrappers aim to simplify the usage for the
Python users. These wrappers were designed so that if someone wrote a
python script that uses scikit-learn or mllib. Then, a simple change from
`from sklearn import LogisticRegression` to `from systemml.mllearn import
LogisticRegression` should in principle allow SystemML to be incorporated
in their workflow.

>> 1) I think it will require a lot of work for scala and python api to be
in sync with r4ml api.
Also I feel that if the goal is too have just python, scala than we have to
do the coding at R4ML. but I think goals was to merge this project.

I guess the goal is to make SystemML better and more user-friendly. To do
that, we have to try our best to keep our APIs across language consistent.
I understand it might require lot of work for Scala and Python APIs to be
in sync with R4ML API, but it has to be done.

Since R4ML was designed in isolation with the SystemML project, I am
recommending to do a gradual merge of (1) the additional features and (2)
features that diverge from SystemML APIs so as to be R friendly; thus,
allowing the SystemML community to comment on them before merging. This
also allows the R4ML features that match one-to-one with the Python and
Scala APIs to be merged quickly and not be in the PR until we agree to
every (1) and (2) features :)

Thanks,

Niketan Pansare
IBM Almaden Research Center
E-mail: npansar At us.ibm.com
http://researcher.watson.ibm.com/researcher/view.php?person=us-npansar



From:	alok singh <singh_alok@hotmail.com>
To:	"dev@systemml.apache.org" <dev@systemml.apache.org>,
            "deron@apache.org" <deron@apache.org>
Date:	09/22/2017 12:30 PM
Subject:	Re: [PROPOSAL] R4ML Integration with SystemML





Here are Niketan's question

Thanks for taking time to answer our questions and also for considering to
help SystemML community. I have couple more questions:

Niketan:1.
 In case there is inconsistency, do you (as R4ML developers) feel
comfortable changing R4ML interface to be compatible with our other APIs ?
May be you can go over the below two links and imagine adding a
corresponding R tab:
- MLContext Programming guide:
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__apache.github.io_systemml_spark-2Dmlcontext-2Dprogramming-2Dguide&d=DwIFAw&c=jf_iaSHvJObTbx-siA1ZOg&r=HzVC6v79boGYQrpc383_Kao_6a6SaOkZrfiSrYZVby0&m=d7aHl15rr92bxoHo26sphduc7Q_4C0GizrRv_AR5pEM&s=xyErlMsfwKjn_qfkXHpjLG8E1B70N5zVX-OWl5LU-yU&e=


apache.github.io<
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__apache.github.io_systemml_spark-2Dmlcontext-2Dprogramming-2Dguide&d=DwIFAw&c=jf_iaSHvJObTbx-siA1ZOg&r=HzVC6v79boGYQrpc383_Kao_6a6SaOkZrfiSrYZVby0&m=d7aHl15rr92bxoHo26sphduc7Q_4C0GizrRv_AR5pEM&s=xyErlMsfwKjn_qfkXHpjLG8E1B70N5zVX-OWl5LU-yU&e=
 >
apache.github.io
Spark MLContext Programming Guide. Overview; Spark Shell Example. Start
Spark Shell with SystemML; Create MLContext; Hello World; LeNet on MNIST
Example; DataFrame ...



- Algorithm wrappers:
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__apache.github.io_systemml_algorithms-2Dclassification.html-23multinomial-2Dlogistic-2Dregression&d=DwIFAw&c=jf_iaSHvJObTbx-siA1ZOg&r=HzVC6v79boGYQrpc383_Kao_6a6SaOkZrfiSrYZVby0&m=d7aHl15rr92bxoHo26sphduc7Q_4C0GizrRv_AR5pEM&s=TpQy-5v3cbhFJfGbEodsNvhrU8gDWexYBwN9x2eXzlc&e=


ALOK: Hi Niketan

 As pointed out earlier, R4ML is not just R interface
so it is based on the earlier product of IBM on R and it has many product
feature.

Also note that the pure ML Ctx and the cmd options for dml is not ideally
allow all the things user want to do in his ML code.
The solution could be to create wrapper to make user happy  . but we have
created those wrapper but those are in R and from user point for view it
feels that are just writing the R code

see some of the examples at

https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__github.com_SparkTC_r4ml_tree_master_R4ML_inst_examples&d=DwIFAw&c=jf_iaSHvJObTbx-siA1ZOg&r=HzVC6v79boGYQrpc383_Kao_6a6SaOkZrfiSrYZVby0&m=d7aHl15rr92bxoHo26sphduc7Q_4C0GizrRv_AR5pEM&s=r4-fcsboHpxlbVf6KyY7C6ptdLcjmyT2g1hBHuqRa2s&e=

https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__github.com_SparkTC_r4ml_blob_master_R4ML_inst_examples_r4ml.demo.mlogit.R&d=DwIFAw&c=jf_iaSHvJObTbx-siA1ZOg&r=HzVC6v79boGYQrpc383_Kao_6a6SaOkZrfiSrYZVby0&m=d7aHl15rr92bxoHo26sphduc7Q_4C0GizrRv_AR5pEM&s=ScIkMGbMLlKu7VgjnDI5pDia2L8C3W_9fZXwZBjb7BI&e=


NOTE: that R4ML uses combination of SparkR and DML and R to make user
experience best.

If the ultimate goal is to have just MLCtx based R interface than I think
it undermines and R4ML value proposition.
(We can definitely just expose MLCtx api. However calling Logistic
Regression example just for the purpose of MLCtx won't be best) R4ML.mlogit
has better apis

2. Classification - GitHub Pages<
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__apache.github.io_systemml_algorithms-2Dclassification.html-23multinomial-2Dlogistic-2Dregression&d=DwIFAw&c=jf_iaSHvJObTbx-siA1ZOg&r=HzVC6v79boGYQrpc383_Kao_6a6SaOkZrfiSrYZVby0&m=d7aHl15rr92bxoHo26sphduc7Q_4C0GizrRv_AR5pEM&s=TpQy-5v3cbhFJfGbEodsNvhrU8gDWexYBwN9x2eXzlc&e=
 >
apache.github.io
SystemML Algorithms Reference 2. Classification 2.1. Multinomial Logistic
Regression Description. The MultiLogReg.dml script performs both binomial
and multinomial ...




Niketan: 2. Other than providing R interface to SystemML as the above APIs,
what additional features/code R4ML plans to add in SystemML ? Just like we
want the R API to be functionally complete with our Python and Scala API,
we want Python and Scala APIs to be functionally complete with the R API.
So a discussion on supporting the additional features in Python and Scala
APIs is required :)

ALOK: as talked in point 1) I think it will require a lot of work for scala
and python api to be in sync with r4ml api.
Also I feel that if the goal is too have just python, scala than we have to
do the coding at R4ML.

but I think goals was to merge this project.

I think @Fred if he can comment also that would be nice

Thanks
Alok



From: alok singh <singh_alok@hotmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2017 7:32 PM
To: dev@systemml.apache.org; deron@apache.org
Subject: Re: [PROPOSAL] R4ML Integration with SystemML

Hi

 We (me and Brendan) has been focusing on other things  like journeys apart
from new MLCtx changes. R4ML commits and PR you can also review,
I think code will definitely be maintained.

Alok





From: Deron Eriksson <deroneriksson@gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2017 6:03 PM
To: dev@systemml.apache.org
Subject: Re: [PROPOSAL] R4ML Integration with SystemML

>
> * Looking over the github repo, apparently R4ML is not under active
> development/maintenance anymore (last commit Jul 20). So who would be
> willing to maintain and extend it?
>
> ALOK: We will doing development into it . there are open PR already.
>
>
No commits since Jul 20 does raise warning flags, as Matthias pointed out.
For some perspective, SystemML has 1013 commits in the last year (~2.78 per
day). No R4ML commits in 2 months is concerning for obvious reasons. It
implies no real work has been done on the project for months.




> * Providing wrappers for our algorithm scripts would be just a start
> because it hides our core value proposition of custom large-scale ML.
> Hence, we would also need an MLContext equivalent that allows to execute
> arbitrary DML scripts or R functions. Is there already a tentative design
> of such an API and if not, who would like to take it over?
>
> ALOK: Currently no out of box MLCtx.
>
>
I believe this also raises some warning flags. Looking over the code at
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__github.com_SparkTC_r4ml_blob_master_R4ML_R_sysml.bridge.R&d=DwIFAw&c=jf_iaSHvJObTbx-siA1ZOg&r=HzVC6v79boGYQrpc383_Kao_6a6SaOkZrfiSrYZVby0&m=d7aHl15rr92bxoHo26sphduc7Q_4C0GizrRv_AR5pEM&s=5kDETV7oPDlZ3OUDHX3lkMp6VxEJB9dUWCX7bZ1c76o&e=
 , it looks


https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__avatars2.githubusercontent.com_u_13631156-3Fv-3D4-26s-3D400&d=DwIFAw&c=jf_iaSHvJObTbx-siA1ZOg&r=HzVC6v79boGYQrpc383_Kao_6a6SaOkZrfiSrYZVby0&m=d7aHl15rr92bxoHo26sphduc7Q_4C0GizrRv_AR5pEM&s=YbUfZ7ntWQKbF6sqdbPrpVyZpRnB5ZwvnabMDRSyrw0&e=


SparkTC/r4ml
github.com
r4ml - Scalable R for Machine Learning

like the code in the R4ML master branch utilizes an old API that does not
currently exist in SystemML. As Matthias pointed out, a key value
proposition of SystemML is customizable machine learning, which would
require an API that currently exists in the project.

That said, I believe an R API interface to SystemML is extremely valuable
and I think the whole SystemML community would benefit from the R API, and
I hope you will pursue the issue further. It looks like it has been in
development since June (
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__github.com_SparkTC_r4ml_pull_50&d=DwIFAw&c=jf_iaSHvJObTbx-siA1ZOg&r=HzVC6v79boGYQrpc383_Kao_6a6SaOkZrfiSrYZVby0&m=d7aHl15rr92bxoHo26sphduc7Q_4C0GizrRv_AR5pEM&s=fw5g1aTmnaaxg3-r142R9vfQbpvKlAPZPYbqHMe5Y-4&e=
 ).


https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__avatars2.githubusercontent.com_u_12959246-3Fv-3D4-26s-3D400&d=DwIFAw&c=jf_iaSHvJObTbx-siA1ZOg&r=HzVC6v79boGYQrpc383_Kao_6a6SaOkZrfiSrYZVby0&m=d7aHl15rr92bxoHo26sphduc7Q_4C0GizrRv_AR5pEM&s=Z7RXGGwxwpayjbVxUMlwBw1v-s03TDqZDeIlo496ITo&e=


[WIP][I-50][R4ML-123] new MLContext API by aloknsingh · Pull Request #50 ·
SparkTC/r4ml
github.com
Developer's Certificate of Origin 1.1 By making a contribution to this
project, I certify that: (a) The contribution was created in whole or in
part by me and I have the right to subm...


Deron




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