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From Andreas Veithen <andreas.veit...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: startup order - correct place to start transport listeners
Date Fri, 03 Apr 2009 23:09:48 GMT
Ruwan,

Can you cite any transport other than HTTP(S) with which that would
actually work?

Andreas

On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 14:53, Ruwan Linton <ruwan.linton@gmail.com> wrote:
> Well, we had two operation models called proxy service mediation and message
> mediation. In the earlier case message is going to be dispatched to the
> respective proxy service where as in the later case message will be directed
> to the main sequence. Now the message mediation operational model is only
> available for the HTTP/S
>
> From my POV this is conceptually wrong with the initial design of synapse.
> Do we want to drop in the message mediation.
>
> Thanks,
> Ruwan
>
> On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 1:35 PM, Andreas Veithen <andreas.veithen@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>>
>> I guess the HTTP(S) restriction is there for the case where Synapse is
>> used as an HTTP proxy. I don't see how we would get a similar behavior
>> with any other transport, so this actually looks right (but should be
>> better documented in the code).
>>
>> Andreas
>>
>> On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 07:59, Ruwan Linton <ruwan.linton@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > Yes, I fixed the handler module.... but what I am referring is the
>> > normal
>> > synapse behavior, not the handler module.
>> >
>> > For the message mediation case I think we shouldn't restrict the
>> > transports.
>> >
>> > Thanks,
>> > Ruwan
>> >
>> > On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 8:58 AM, indika kumara <indika.kuma@gmail.com>
>> > wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Hi Runwan
>> >>
>> >> HTTP and HTTPS for synapse  message mediation (_SynapseService)
>> >> setting was there in the previous code (Proxy service only had the per
>> >> service transports ) . I actually only did refractor - cut and paste
>> >> and change only organization.   Synapse as Handler module can be
>> >> deployed without much effort... may three , four line ........
>> >>
>> >> Thanks
>> >> Indika
>> >>
>> >> On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 7:29 AM, Ruwan Linton <ruwan.linton@gmail.com>
>> >> wrote:
>> >> > I went through the new synapse startup logic and it seems OK but this
>> >> > makes
>> >> > the following concrete changes to the synapse architecture
>> >> >
>> >> > Synapse can no longer be deployed just as a pure module in axis2, it
>> >> > requires much more work.
>> >> > The message mediation is restricted to HTTP and HTTPS, which I am not
>> >> > sure
>> >> > whether we want to keep it as it is.
>> >> >
>> >> > But still this new logic even doesn't address the original problem
in
>> >> > the
>> >> > discussion. In the new logic transport listeners starts even before
>> >> > the
>> >> > mediators getting loaded into synapse.
>> >> >
>> >> > I think we need to improve this, and to me Eric's point is completely
>> >> > a
>> >> > valid point. I will further look into resolving this and will keep
>> >> > the
>> >> > list
>> >> > posted.
>> >> >
>> >> > Thanks,
>> >> > Ruwan
>> >> >
>> >> > On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 3:53 PM, Supun Kamburugamuva
>> >> > <supun06@gmail.com>
>> >> > wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Hi Indika,
>> >> >>
>> >> >> On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 10:02 AM, indika kumara
>> >> >> <indika.kuma@gmail.com>
>> >> >> wrote:
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> If the synapse is run top on axis2 or any other, it should
be
>> >> >>> properly
>> >> >>> initialized and started before initialize synapse.
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> We are talking about two things here. Initialization and startup.
I
>> >> >> agree
>> >> >> synapse should inilialize after axis2. Also Synapse should start
>> >> >> after
>> >> >> Axis2. But at the moment it seems that Synapse is starting even
>> >> >> before
>> >> >> it
>> >> >> initializes. The way Synapse is written it is perfectly normal
to
>> >> >> assume
>> >> >> that it is started when Axis2 is started. But if we do it in the
>> >> >> current
>> >> >> way, this assumption is broken and can lead to failures as Eric
>> >> >> said.
>> >> >> If
>> >> >> Axis2 is initialize properly we can initialize Synapse. As Eric
said
>> >> >> if
>> >> >> both
>> >> >> are successfully initialized we can start Axis2 transports, which
>> >> >> automatically starts Synapse.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Thanks,
>> >> >> Supun.
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> It is a well known
>> >> >>> semantic that system should be in consistent state before use
it.
>> >> >>> You
>> >> >>> can refer [1] and it says why I did.
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> The way message get in to synapse and mediation engine (main
>> >> >>> behavior)
>> >> >>> are two different aspects and definitely should have two different
>> >> >>> decision designs as it is wrong if main behavior depend on
other
>> >> >>> behavior.  The starting, shutdown --- simply state (consistent)
>> >> >>> management of mediation should not depend any thing.   Axis2
Hander
>> >> >>> is
>> >> >>> make way to get message into in to synapse and for good design,
>> >> >>> mediation engine should separate from this design decision.
>> >> >>> Managing
>> >> >>> mediation engine should be independent from axis2 or any other.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> If it is needed to avoid effect of started listeners if the
synapse
>> >> >>> mediation engine started up is failed, then only applicable
>> >> >>> transaction semantic is compensation transaction. In order
to
>> >> >>> enforce
>> >> >>> that, it is needed to properly shutdown listeners, etc ---
some how
>> >> >>> need to move into a consistent state before system startup.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> [1]
>> >> >>> http://www.mail-archive.com/dev@synapse.apache.org/msg02688.html
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> Thanks
>> >> >>> Indika
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >> >>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@synapse.apache.org
>> >> >>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@synapse.apache.org
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> --
>> >> >> Software Engineer, WSO2 Inc
>> >> >> http://wso2.org
>> >> >> supunk.blogspot.com
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > --
>> >> > Ruwan Linton
>> >> > Senior Software Engineer & Product Manager; WSO2 ESB;
>> >> > http://wso2.org/esb
>> >> > WSO2 Inc.; http://wso2.org
>> >> > email: ruwan@wso2.com; cell: +94 77 341 3097
>> >> > blog: http://ruwansblog.blogspot.com
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@synapse.apache.org
>> >> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@synapse.apache.org
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > Ruwan Linton
>> > Senior Software Engineer & Product Manager; WSO2 ESB;
>> > http://wso2.org/esb
>> > WSO2 Inc.; http://wso2.org
>> > email: ruwan@wso2.com; cell: +94 77 341 3097
>> > blog: http://ruwansblog.blogspot.com
>> >
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@synapse.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@synapse.apache.org
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Ruwan Linton
> Senior Software Engineer & Product Manager; WSO2 ESB; http://wso2.org/esb
> WSO2 Inc.; http://wso2.org
> email: ruwan@wso2.com; cell: +94 77 341 3097
> blog: http://ruwansblog.blogspot.com
>

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