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From "Frank W. Zammetti" <>
Subject Re: struts1 or struts 2?
Date Thu, 09 Aug 2007 14:24:31 GMT
On Thu, August 9, 2007 8:24 am, Ted Husted wrote:
> IMHO, if we had today's JavaScript/CSS/HTML environment available to
> us in 1998, then JSP, ASP, JSF, PHP, and all the rest of it, would not
> exist. We did all these things to make up for the shortcomings of the
> client-side environment, and, since then, the key shortcomings have
> been addressed.

Great observation IMO, and it couldn't be more true.

I always like to tell the story of a Java users group I was at maybe two
years ago now... the speaker was talking about AJAX and he said that the
people who know what AJAX is at that point are the same people who are
pissed about it because frankly it hasn't been anything new for them for
some time!

I have one app that was put in production in 1998 ironically, the year you
picked here Ted, that you'd look at today and say it was AJAX, an RIA, but
it didn't use what we'd call AJAX now (hidden iFrame that got Javascript
back which executed upon return and automatically updated and hide and
showed a variety of DIVs on the page... in fact, this is the extreme case
because absolutely every view the user can ever see in the app is loaded
up front and never generated server-side, it's only data being plugged
into fields after startup).  If I'd have thought for one second that what
I was doing was any big deal, unusual in some way, it could have been my
name going down in history as having invented AJAX instead of Jesse James
Garrett!  And the worse part is I know I'm not the only one that can say
that! LOL

I've had the interesting experience of witnessing an evolution here at
work... in 1998, I was the only one building apps in that fashion at this
company, everyone else was very much at the other extreme, the whole "let
the server do everything" approach as you described, thin pages, etc. 
Everyone thought I was nuts (I only got away with it because my projects
are always successful, something not everyone here can claim), I got into
some really heated dehates with folks over the years about it too.  Now,
things are very much swinging the other way... apps are being built now in
much more RIA ways, it's much more mainstream thinking.

I think that evolution is playing itself out across many organizations
now, and that's my point: there's a critical mass now, and the mindset is
starting to change, and Ted's right, many of the technologies we're
saddled with today would never have needed inventing if everyone had
listened to me (or the others that were doing what I did in various
orgamizations) back in 1998! LOL

> -Ted.


Frank W. Zammetti
Founder and Chief Software Architect
Omnytex Technologies
AIM/Yahoo: fzammetti
Author of "Practical Ajax Projects With Java Technology"
 (2006, Apress, ISBN 1-59059-695-1)
and "JavaScript, DOM Scripting and Ajax Projects"
 (2007, Apress, ISBN 1-59059-816-4)
Java Web Parts -
 Supplying the wheel, so you don't have to reinvent it!

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