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From Bart Busschots <>
Subject Re: Some questions
Date Wed, 05 Apr 2006 10:39:56 GMT
Jonathan Revusky wrote:
> What do you mean "so what", Frank? If one is new to the java web 
> application space, why on earth should one start using a framework 
> like Struts Classic that (a) is not state of the art and (b) is not 
> going to be developed any further?
> WHY?
Because it does what you need? Because it does MORE than you need? 
Because there is a much larger community out there with the skills you 
need? Because there are more online resources to help you when you get 
stuck? Because the platform is stable, reliable and tested in the real 
world? I could go on but I think you get the point. The bleeding edge is 
NOT a good place to be on a production system! If it ain't broke, don't 
fix it!

I get very annoyed when people insist that you have to be at the 
bleeding edge of everything or you're being stupid. That's just not a 
real world view of things, it's an idealized view from an ivory tower IMO.

>> Does Struts as it exists today serve a great many people very well?  
>> Yes.  Does everyone need every single new feature available out 
>> there?  No.  You know, I've had my complaints as well, but 
>> ultimately, if the offering is doing the job for so many, how does 
>> how far behind the state of the art it is really matter?
> What you're saying is senseless IMO. In this discussion, the onus is 
> not on me to explain why somebody new to the java web app space should 
> not use Struts 1.x. The onus is on the other side of the debate to 
> explain why somebody should use it, given that it is (a) quite far 
> behind the state of the art and (b) is not going to be developed any 
> further.
See above points and it IS being developed further, 1.3 is on the way!
> The onus is on you to explain why somebody should not do the 
> common-sensical thing of looking for something that is state of the 
> art and that will have an ongoing development effort behind it. Such a 
> thing could be Webwork a.k.a. Struts Action 2, or *maybe* this Shale 
> thing or it could be something else.
Looking for state of the art is not common-sensical! In the real world 
there are many more factors to consider than just wither or not you use 
the latest bleeding edge technology. Stability and a proven track record 
count for a lot as do the availability of skills and help and 
documentation and books etc. You are looking at just a single factor and 
assuming it is the only factor when it simply isn't in the real world.


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