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From "Alexandre Poitras" <alexandre.poit...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: friday ha ha
Date Wed, 19 Apr 2006 22:50:12 GMT
On 4/19/06, Jonathan Revusky <revusky@wanadoo.es> wrote:
> Alexandre Poitras wrote:
> > On 4/19/06, Jonathan Revusky <revusky@wanadoo.es> wrote:
> >
> >>Dave Newton wrote:
> >>
> >>>Jonathan Revusky wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>[...] rather than trying to modernize/refactor it forward
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>From a developer's standpoint I'm not even sure how I'd go about
> >>>refactoring the existing Struts 1.x codebase...
> >>>
> >>>As an example, I've always been pissy about the Action being tightly
> >>>coupled to the servlet spec., returning something only useful in the
> >>>context of Struts 1.x, etc. (Who hasn't?! :)
> >>>
> >>>Okay, how do I remove that dependency? Just thinking out loud, so parts
> >>>of this will be dumb.
> >>>
> >>>- App functionality already moved into injectable objects
> >>>- Change request processor to put params etc. into an "action context"
> >>>(just a map?) rather than directly accessing HttpServletRequest (or its
> >>>wrapper)
> >>>- Change action processing to accept a different type of forward (just a
> >>>string, no-brainer?)
> >>>- Minor validation rework to accept POJOs rather than ActionForms
> >>>- Pluggable request processing/path handling
> >>>- ...etc.
> >>>
> >>>I dunno... Sure looks a lot like stuff that already exists. I wouldn't
> >>>rewrite/refactor it either; I would start over.
> >>>
> >>>Now, it might be feasible to write a wrapper around an already-existing
> >>>framework (or minorly tweaked one) to process existing struts
> >>>code/configs/Actions etc. and this might provide an incremental
> >>>migration path, but...
> >>>
> >>>*shudder*
> >>
> >>Well, there all these issues, and yeah, I guess they could make you and
> >>other people shudder. I mean, among the existing Struts committers there
> >>is no stomach apparently to try to do anything significant with the
> >>Struts 1.x codebase and they just prefer to either start something new
> >>(Shale) or bring in a previously competing codebase (Webwork) and work
> >>on that.
> >>
> >>But the real key point I am wondering about is this: if the existing
> >>Struts developers have no plans for developing the Struts 1.x codebase,
> >>what is the justification for not letting people who want to work on
> >>that (independently of whether this reflects good taste on their part or
> >>not) come in and work on it?
> >>
> >
> >
> > Well why don't you do it yourself and stop BUGGING the users of this
> > list so they can stop receiving your "How great I am" emails.
>
> I have no idea what on earth you're talking about. I have no
> recollection of singing my own praises in these emails and even if I
> was, it would not make any arguments I am presenting any more or less valid.
>
> Isn't it the case, Alexandre, that you are starting with this kind of
> incoherent personal attack because your counter-arguments to what I am
> saying are kind of thin? (At best...)
>
> > You
> > should really check out this Apache license which from what I heard
> > give you the right to evolve Struts yourself and this great site
> > called SourceForge.net which give you a free CVS repository access.
>
> It is true that anybody could take the Struts 1.x codebase and fork it
> and put it on sourceforge.net. However, the problem is that, once you're
> talking about a non-canonical forked version, you are basically in the
> position of shouting into the wilderness. The exact same work will only
> get a fraction (a *very* small one) of the attention and usage that it
> would if it were part of the canonical Struts project on apache.org.
>
> If the Struts developers have a certain vision of how Struts 1.x should
> evolve, and you disagree with them, then, okay, maybe you have to go
> fork off your own version. But why should someone like Phil or anybody
> else who maybe wants to do something with Struts 1.x have to fork off a
> separate project on sourceforge when the Struts developers themselves
> have no intention of doing *anything* with the Struts 1.x codebase anyway?
>
> Surely you see my point, don't you? Have you thought about this?
>
> > Seriously, I have never seen a guy more in love with himself.
>
> Well, if that's really the case, you should get out more.
>
> But seriously, the above is irrelevant. It does not invalidate any
> argument I have  made. It does not reinforce any argument you have made
> (if you have in fact made any argument, that is...). It is simply
> ad-hominem drivel. Do you think it really makes sense to behave this way
> in a professional forum? You know, there is a permanent electronic
> archive of these discussions.
>
> Jonathan Revusky

First of all,  there is the developper mailing list for this.

Second, all the comitters have answered your questions very nicely in
the last months and what they think about it but you keep going and
going and going because they don't agree with you. Also, several users
have stated they were really tired of those old debates, I am one of
them. If you don't agree with them fine but it's not a reason to
continue rambling about it. You keep saying you have rational
arguments and we use personal attacks but yet you don't argue
rational, you keep repeating the same thing again and again and
dismissing everyone else opinions.
So don't ask me to debate when you have this kind of attitude. Your
arguments may stand for you but you are debating over an opinion about
an organization politics here and not a fact. A lot of people disagree
with you and like the way Apache works and you totally disrespect them
by the way you act. I am one of those and I am really really tired of
hearing your old song. But well I think it wasn't smart of me and I
should introduce you and Dakota to my ignore list. Don't worry, would
be done in a couple of minutes.

And about this sue argument, Dakota has played it couple of times in
the past. It is really getting old. But hey I guess apache commiter
should sue you too over the long insult emails you sent them. You need
some remainders???




> --
> lead developer, FreeMarker project, http://freemarker.org/
>
> >
> >
> >
> >>Given the basic parameters of the situation, what would there possibly
> >>be to lose?
> >>
> >>Jonathan Revusky
> >>--
> >>lead developer, FreeMarker project, http://freemarker.org/
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>(But an interesting *shudder* I'll admit... *ponder*)
> >>>
> >>>Dave
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>---------------------------------------------------------------------
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> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Alexandre Poitras
> > Québec, Canada
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
>


--
Alexandre Poitras
Québec, Canada

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