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From "Frank W. Zammetti" <>
Subject Re: has struts reached the saturation
Date Tue, 21 Mar 2006 04:06:41 GMT
Jonathan Revusky wrote:
> Well, have you considered the positional issues I raised in the earlier 
> post? The order in which people vote is quite important. Offhand, here 
> is an idea:

You know, I meant to address that and I completely forgot :)  I think 
you do raise a valid issue.  I'm not really sure how to solve it... 
simple anonymous vote seems the best answer, but how do you pull that 
off?  If you have a webapp specially for people to vote, someone could 
always accuse you of "cooking" the code :)  That is I think one of the 
reasons most projects go with a public vote on a list, and I tend to agree.

> Maybe you should have a vote that is non-binding among the simple users. 
> Effectively if most users are against something, then the idea is not 
> immediately rejected, but it is indicative of a need for more debate. If 
> most users are in favor, then you could move on to the committers voting 
> and so on.
> The problem is that once the people higher on your pecking order, your 
> PMC, vote +1, this will bias the votes of the lower status people. 
> (Also, the PMC are the people who are -- hopefully -- more involved and 
> are likely to put in their votes with less delay.) The results of the 
> voting is bound to be highly dependent on the order in which voting 
> takes place, don't you think?

Yes, I do agree it is a concern.  I'm not sure I would say it is 
*highly* dependent on order, but I *do* think it comes into play.

Well, I just proposed a few changes to the bylaws on the JWP mailing 
list, and I wish I hadn't forgotten about this point because I would 
have tried to address it too.  I have to think about it a bit and try 
and find a decent solution, I'm not sure what it might be at the moment.

> Your intent is good, but I am skeptical that all this formalized voting 
> is really the way open source projects should work. I'm not saying I 
> have all the alternatives figured either.

You know, it's funny, but a few years ago I was quite the anti-open 
source guy :)  I've definitely changed my thinking on some things over 
the years.  One of the things I *haven't* changed my mind about though 
is the need for more formality.  I don't believe that *some* rigidity 
and *some* project management methodologies is incompatible with the 
idea of community development.  Obviously you can't take it too far, but 
I'm trying to figure out where the line is :)

If nothing else, I prefer being up-front with people, and I don't want 
there to be any mystery in the process.  The voting system may be 
somewhat unwieldly, and I in no way think it's perfect, but I would 
prefer that to having to figure out how to do a vote every time one 
comes up :)

> Jonathan Revusky


Frank W. Zammetti
Founder and Chief Software Architect
Omnytex Technologies
AIM: fzammetti
Yahoo: fzammetti
Java Web Parts -
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