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From "Henri Yandell" <>
Subject Re: I Apologize
Date Tue, 28 Mar 2006 19:49:56 GMT
On 3/28/06, Jonathan Revusky <> wrote:
> Henri Yandell wrote:
> > On 3/28/06, Dave Newton <> wrote:
> >
> >>Henri Yandell wrote:
> >>
> >>>Not a very impressive joke. This was a major breach of manners 10
> >>>years ago, and it still is today.
> >>>
> >>
> >>I thought they were funny 10 years ago, too, especially when it was
> >>deliberately, and obviously, a joke.
> >
> >
> > I'm a dumb user, I thought Jonathan was being sarcastic until I read
> > the next email.
> >
> > I don't condone Jonathan's approach, I've learnt the hard way that if
> > you don't approach problems with diplomacy then you'll just alienate
> > the audience. Fortunately I was able to leave that dayjob :)
> >
> > However, I'm also certain that escalating these conversations gets us
> > nowhere. The only positive solution I know of is to try to point the
> > conversation towards constructive issues and not destructive. It's not
> > to retaliate with much the same approach.
> You started off well, Henri, but what do you mean by "retaliate with
> much the same approach"? Do you mean these guys doing this are doing
> what I did at some point?
> When did I post anybody's private email to the list? When did I sign an
> email by any name but my own?

I mean the same style of approach, rather than details. If someone
enters the conversation with a perceived aggression, retaliating with
the same aggression is going to get you nowhere other than the warmth
generated by our combined cpus, network cards and the wonder of
adrenalin bursts.

It takes a 5-second reply to make a flamewar, it takes a 5 minute
reply to avoid one.

> Look, Henri, I'll try to meet you a bit halfway. I probably really need
> to work on being more diplomatic. I could learn something from you
> there. But I think you should learn a greater respect for the truth.
> Diplomacy has to be balanced by some respect for the truth. And that
> does mean that sometimes you end up saying things that people don't like.
> Also, to be saying: "I don't like you doing this to JR, but JR is a bad
> guy" could lead these kinds of people to interpret this as a sort of
> "nudge, nudge, wink, wink". I really hope that wasn't your intention.

"I don't like JR's style, but I'm not going to give up my own style in
reacting to the email".

As a general opinion aimed at everyone:

Ranting, moving between private/public threads, spoofing and joking
without it being very obvious [that's why we have the smilies, use
'em] are of no value to the community, it's something an individual
does to neutralize the emotion and adrenalin - and it harms your own
position within the community.

Take time over replies, take time over the original emails (don't just
do a braindump and send, that helps nobody), de-escalate rather than
escalate. _Especially_ when you are talking about emotional issues
like brand and community. What works for a technical argument does not
work for a social argument.

This is just an opinion. I've had just the one tiny patch applied to
Struts, so have not contributed to this community. Take it how you


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