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From "Frank W. Zammetti" <>
Subject Re: has struts reached the saturation
Date Wed, 15 Mar 2006 17:26:31 GMT
On Wed, March 15, 2006 12:13 pm, Greg Reddin said:
> On Mar 15, 2006, at 10:13 AM, Frank W. Zammetti wrote:
>> I value honesty and openness above all else, and when I
>> feel like those ideals are not being met completely, even if
>> relatively
>> beningnly as is the case in sales generally, it bugs me a bit.
> Hmm, interesting.  I value honesty and openness as well.  I just
> don't expect to see it in marketing material.  I guess I don't even
> "desire" it in marketing material.  I tend to skip over marketing
> altogether and look for the truth below.

I don't think your alone in that.  In fact, I have no problem submitting
that I am almost certainly the anomaly :)  It's just one of those things
that sticks in my craw a bit... if someone is going to start off by not
being straight with me, to whatever relatively minor degree it may be, and
even in a situation where it's expected, that bugs me.

Then again, I'm probably the easiest guy to sell a car too... be straight
with me from the start, and even if your story (read; price) isn't as good
as the salesman who isn't as straight, you probably made the sale :)

>> From a purely *technical* standpoint though, as I've said
>> before, I'm not at this point a fan of JSF.  That being said, I'm
>> in no
>> way dismissing it forever.  In fact, I look forward to the next
>> major rev
>> as I hear a great many things are being addressed that may well
>> make it
>> more paletable to me.  Where it came from and the motivations
>> behind it
>> are at this point largely just a historical discussion.  Where it
>> is and
>> where its going is far more interesting to me :)
> I'm in a similar place, though, perhaps a bit closer to acceptance.
> I've completed one proof of concept project based on JSF and found a
> lot of difficulties.  Again, some aspects of it worked better than
> Struts, others cried out for Struts :-)  My biggest difficulties came
> in trying to get the JSP pages to work right.  I too await the next
> version and hope for improvement.  But I really liked the controller
> strategy.

Isn't it interesting how polarizing JSF seems to be?  I don't know about
you, but I talk to more people with a strong opinion either way than most
other technologies.  The only other one I can think of in the same vein is
EJBs.  Seems like you either love EJBs or you hate them, and the same
seems, largely, to be true of JSF.  There seems to be relatively few of us
in the middle.

Maybe it's just the typical "those with the strongest opinions tend to
speak the loudest" syndrome though :)

It's also interesting that a lot of people seem to start out with a strong
opinion and gravitate towards the middle, at least in my experience.  I
certainly had a stronger negative opinion at one point than I do now for

Eh, just curiosities of group-think I suppose :)

> Greg


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