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From "Michael Jouravlev" <>
Subject Re: has struts reached the saturation
Date Tue, 21 Mar 2006 22:12:56 GMT
Whoa, you guys are writers indeed ;)

On 3/21/06, Jonathan Revusky <> wrote:
> Frank W. Zammetti wrote:
> > Jonathan Revusky wrote:
> > Can you point out where Struts has "utterly failed" to compete with
> > Webwork technically?
> I don't know either product so well in detail. My interest in Webwork
> and hence, Struts Action, is that FreeMarker is used very extensively there.
> But I don't think there's much onus on me to answer this question
> anyway. If the main Struts people want Webwork to be Struts Action 2.x,
> and for Struts 1.x users (at least the ones who want an action
> framework) to migrate to that, they are saying that WW is superior.

The next few paragraphs is my own speculation, it is not based on hard
facts, does not have any specific person(s) in mind, nor it means to
judge any person(s). It is just my own feeling which may be well off

While core Struts people are noticeably moving to JSF/MyFaces/Shale,
the original Struts niche opens up for grabs. It could be left for the
"next best thing in action frameworks" like WebWork or Stripes or
Spring MVC or something else. But in the end the public perception
would have been that Struts ran out of steam and lost the battle.

Struts guys made a smart move bringing WebWork in as Struts 2.0. This
way the name (the brand name if you like, but according to Tess
"Struts" is not a registered trademark) is preserved and all that is
related to the name is preserved too, not just software but people

Check out the difference: "I was a Struts committer once" - "Oh, that
Struts that was 'zee standard', but it sucked and nobody wants it
anymore" and: "I am a Struts committer" - "Oh, I've heard that version
2.0 is really cool".

This way old Struts people retain their respectable status, while
WebWork guys get the market. Very nice deal.

> Well, the responsible struts people threw in the towel, as far as a
> technical competition is concerned. They accepted that webwork was
> better. Now, if you think the boxer's manager threw in the towel
> prematurely, that could be an issue, but that he lost the fight is clear
> enough.

The boxer is leaving the building. The boxer's manager is putting a
fresh guy who is willing to pick up the fight. This corner will be
covered, don't you get worried.

> > The 1.3 branch
> > brings a lot of power, but it almost feels superfluous with the pending
> > WW merger (I have my suspicion that it hasn't gotten the attention it
> > should have ever since the merger decision was made, but that's just my
> > suspicion).
> Yes, but the WW merger came about specifically because Struts was
> falling further and further behind. At least this is what I infer. So
> maybe there is some confusion of cause and effect in all this.

Afaik, changes for 1.3 branch were considered long ago before WebWork
merger. They started to get implemented before merger, and some (a
lot?) of people use 1.3 codebase right now. 1.3.x has to go official
simply to ease managers' nervousness about using beta. I don't think
there ever will be 1.4. At this point I don't see reasons for doing


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