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From Dakota Jack <dakota.j...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: Who decides?
Date Sun, 11 Sep 2005 22:31:25 GMT
I am saying that for me Struts is not a viable product to use in any
new commercial areas because of this.  Spring is hugely superior as
things stand and Struts is threatening to devolve.  Indeed, it would
be easier to build a new Struts on top of Spring than to fix get
anyone to evolve Struts rather than change it into something that no
fan of the Struts type architecture could possibly understand and
love.



On 9/11/05, Adam Hardy <ahardy.struts@cyberspaceroad.com> wrote:
> My aim with the list of patterns / features was to give you something to
> scan over quickly to point out where the Spring MVC framework provides
> something better than struts.
> 
> They're not really just struts features, they're more patterns found in
> any web-app. I find several of them require cumbersome solutions in struts.
> 
> Are you saying then really that the main plus-point for Spring over
> Struts is the stability of the project?
> 
> 
> Dakota Jack on 10/09/05 21:24, wrote:
> > The main issue, Adam, was stability.  I believe that my statements
> > were useful for the person asking the question.  I am not interested
> > in being "non-contensious" or otherwise satisfying your personal
> > needs.  I was trying to answer the question in a helpful way, even if
> > you might do otherwise.  If you would like to do otherwise, do so.  I
> > don't care.  I think that a honest answer to the questioner requires
> > stating what is relevant.  That seems okay to me.  LIke I said, do
> > what you like.  If you don't like what I say, I recommend you take
> > evasive action.  I am not trying to impress you but assist someone
> > else.
> >
> > Regarding the list you tossed out, much of that is portable and almost
> > all could be easily made portable.  Some of the "features", e.g. the
> > way Struts code does multiple commands on a form submit, I personally
> > consider to be more a bug that a feature.
> >
> > What you like is not my concern.  I was talking to someone else.  I
> > don't find your list to be fair, however.  A large part of your list
> > is stuff that is quite portable and not Struts specific and others are
> > simply not covered by Strust.  Anyway, I have always liked Struts
> > classic and still do.  What I was saying is that the community is
> > unstable and that a person starting an application would be taking a
> > risk at this point starting with Struts.
> >
> >
> >
> > On 9/10/05, Adam Hardy <ahardy.struts@cyberspaceroad.com> wrote:
> >
> >>Dakota Jack on 10/09/05 07:09, wrote:
> >>
> >>>I sympathize entirely with what you are saying, Murray, and believe
> >>>that there is no good reason for the present difficulties you face.
> >>>The situation is NOT inevitable or even desirable.
> >>>
> >>>I would strongly suggest you consider the Spring alternative which is
> >>>highly unlikely to change in fundamentals for a very long time.
> >>>
> >>>There is no vision here that is not willy nilly and merely fulfilling
> >>>some philosophical opinions about community which come down to
> >>>servicing the older committers' daytime jobs and reputatoins, in my
> >>>opinion.  They say that too, but I will guess that they don't want
> >>>anyone else saying it.
> >>>
> >>>Struts is a very unstable community producing inferior code at this
> >>>point with political infighting on a "nice" level to steal the name
> >>>for the latest and greatest old idea trying to claim to be very, very,
> >>>very new.
> >>
> >>Dakota, can't you control your trollish instincts? There are far less
> >>contentious ways of saying what you said.
> >>
> >>Since you are recommending Spring, can you answer a couple of questions
> >>about it? For instance, is there any outstanding improvement over struts
> >>in the patterns that it offers for say:
> >>
> >>     * tiles
> >>     * breadcrumb menu
> >>     * taglibs
> >>     * nested beans
> >>     * l12n and i18n (prob: dropdowns)
> >>     * reference data cache
> >>     * dropdown data collections (Id & Label)
> >>     * DTOs to view mapping
> >>     * validator
> >>     * multiple commands on form submit
> >>     * cancel button
> >>     * post-redirect-get
> >>     * exception handling
> >>     * displaying messages
> >>     * security - Spring is based on Acegi right?
> >>     * transaction token
> >>
> >>
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> >>
> >
> >
> >
> 
> 
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> 


-- 
"You can lead a horse to water but you cannot make it float on its back."
~Dakota Jack~

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