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From Dakota Jack <>
Subject Re: JerichoFaces ?
Date Sun, 21 Nov 2004 06:01:14 GMT
On Sat, 20 Nov 2004 09:18:18 -0600, Joe Germuska <> wrote:

> I think a lot of people are making a mistake by making more out of
> Shale than it is.  Shale is a proposal and a prototype.  It is here
> now for people to use it and see what they thing of it.  It is taking
> the opportunity to re-imagine Struts free of some of the backwards
> compatibility baggage that Struts 1.x has.

Shale is Java ServerFaces: "ViewController is an interface describing
a JavaBean that is associated with a JavaServer Faces view (typically
a JSP page)", cf.  Java
ServerFaces or Shale and Struts are different and inherently
incompatible visions, cf. the connection between Struts and JavaServer
Faces in Hans Bergsten's book on the same.  Is pointing this out or
raising the issue a problem?

The name "Struts" has great branding value as the advocates of Shale
and Java ServerFaces clearly see.  If you want to take that name and
give it to something fundamentally and philosophically inconsistent,
be my guest.  You are right.  People can continue to work on Struts
after the name has been moved to an architecture which is inconsistent
with Struts.  Things get a little confusing, perhaps, but that can be

But, saying that this is happening (1) is not to denigrate Shale or
Java ServerFaces; (2) has nothing to do with the ASF open source
process and what people can and cannot work on; (3)  is not to support
or to decry the process.  Heck, maybe this is not right.  Seems to me
that discussion of what is happening and knowledge of the same is
legitimate, isn't it?  People can do what they want.  There still is
the need to be aware of what is happening in making such choices.  No?


"You can't wake a person who is pretending to be asleep."

~Native Proverb~

"Each man is good in His sight. It is not necessary for eagles to be crows."

~Hunkesni (Sitting Bull), Hunkpapa Sioux~

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