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From "Bailey, Shane C." <>
Subject RE: JSTL ot struts taglibs?
Date Fri, 08 Aug 2003 20:02:17 GMT

-----Original Message-----
From: Erik Price [] 
Sent: Friday, August 08, 2003 3:45 PM
To: Struts Users Mailing List
Subject: Re: JSTL ot struts taglibs?

Bailey, Shane C. wrote:

Why should build files be composed of tags at all?  I think Ant is great 
too (a lot better than make), but does the fact that it is tag-based 
have anything to do with it?  No.  The reason that the original author 
went with XML for the structure of Ant build files had nothing to do 
with tags -- it had to do with hierarchy.  See <> 
to read his thoughts on the matter (sorry for the cachelink but I can't 
find the official permalink).

I don't know why a build file should be composed of tags either.  My point
was that Ant is nicer and more recently popular than make and the developer
could have thought, "You know, most people that will be using Any will
probably know make so I am going to throw a bunch of "==" in there and that
would be fine.  Ant has more of an excuse to have "==" in the darn thing
than a View (geared toward UI and graphic artist specialist) tag set does.
And the Ant developer must have seen the light. (All my opinion, of course).

Faster?  Given a programmer with equal knowledge of scriptlets and JSTL, 
scriptlets are definitely not faster for development.  Since when are 
they faster for performance?  Plus they tend to be difficult to read -- 
and I say this as a former PHP programmer.

If they aren't faster in performance then something is wrong.  All the JSP
rendering practically has to do is put the code as is into the Servlet which
is a Java class.  No interpretation.  I haven't looked at the source but I
am sure the optimization for rendering code for Scriptlets vs JSTL has to be
there.  I know more Java programmers that could get a JSP page drawn if you
simple told them <% ... %> for multiple code segments and do <%= ... %> to
return an expression given all they knew was Java and no Web stuff
(including JSTL at all).

Okay, first of all, JSTL is a JCP specification (JSR-52, for more info 
see <>).  It's 
not just some 3rd-party library that is going to be "replaced" any time 
soon.  Second of all, it is actually a part of the JSP 2.0 specification 
(just as scriptlets are part of an earlier JSP specification).  While 
scriptlets are still supported in JSP 2.0, it is clear that Sun and the 
JCP are trying to provide alternatives to scriptlets and at some point 
they might even be deprecated.

Nothing is impossible.  I remember being devastated after getting pretty
efficient with AWT and then the model changed and then Swing came out. And
you even mention how scriptlets WERE part of the spec and are now close to
deprecation.  So what is so ridiculous about my statement???

So sorry, but I had to ask - what the crap were you talking about.

No problem.

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