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From David Graham <grahamdavid1...@yahoo.com>
Subject RE: Using JSTL tags instead of Struts tags
Date Fri, 11 Jul 2003 20:07:00 GMT
--- "Davidson, Glenn" <Glenn.Davidson@tiaa-cref.org> wrote:
> I recently saw the term "Dog Food" and found it amusing. I might not be
> using it correctly in this context ( I just might be eating some dog
> food
> with my prior email :-) ) . What I was trying to get across is that just
> because there are other languages/technologies that allow programmers to
> build applications in a poor manner, that in itself should not be used
> to
> justify the addition of features that would allow Struts based
> applications
> to be built in the same manner. I chose struts as the framework for our
> web
> development specifically because it didn't allow the type of mixing of
> logic
> and presentation that was mentioned earlier in this thread. If I wanted
> to
> mix logic and presentation I would use PHP, it makes it very easy to do
> that. If struts is going to be MVC, then let's keep it MVC. 

This discussion has had little to do with Struts and much to do with the
JSTL.

David


> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mark Lowe [mailto:mark.lowe@talk21.com]
> Sent: Friday, July 11, 2003 11:30 AM
> To: Struts Users Mailing List
> Subject: Re: Using JSTL tags instead of Struts tags
> 
> 
> I'm familiar with the tech idiom "dog-food" .. but I have no idea what 
> it is you're talking about please can you explain what you understand 
> by dog-food coding?
> 
> If your saying what I think you are are you sure you're not choking on 
> some?
> 
> 
> On Friday, July 11, 2003, at 02:36 PM, Davidson, Glenn wrote:
> 
> > Please tell me that this is the start of a new urban legend and a
> joke.
> > There are people who like "Dog food" coding (see PHP, Perl) but this 
> > should
> > not be used as an excuse to pollute what Struts stands for. I 
> > understand
> > that you want to increase the acceptance of Struts but history has 
> > shown
> > that as soon as you start down the slippery slope of including "Dog 
> > Food"
> > features you become the technology providers that you currently make 
> > fun of.
> > I humbly request that you reconsider SQL tags and other "Dog Food" 
> > features.
> > Struts has made a great start and up till now the direction has been 
> > solid.
> > No "Dog Food" please!
> >
> > Glenn
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Mark Galbreath [mailto:mark_galbreath@qat.com]
> > Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2003 7:20 PM
> > To: 'Struts Users Mailing List'
> > Subject: RE: Using JSTL tags instead of Struts tags
> >
> >
> > I think this approach is bullshit.  Why would you develop "SQL" tags 
> > to get
> > access to the db from the view?  You are contradicting yourself...this
> 
> > is
> > exactly what PERL and PHP do.  This is not good programming practice!
> >
> > Mark
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Craig R. McClanahan [mailto:craigmcc@apache.org]
> > Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2003 6:38 PM
> >
> > On Thu, 10 Jul 2003, David Geary wrote:
> >
> >> Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 15:22:17 -0600
> >> From: David Geary <sabreware@earthlink.net>
> >> Reply-To: Struts Users Mailing List <struts-user@jakarta.apache.org>
> >> To: Struts Users Mailing List <struts-user@jakarta.apache.org>
> >> Subject: Re: Using JSTL tags instead of Struts tags
> >>
> >> On Thursday, Jul 10, 2003, at 15:18 America/Denver, Mark Galbreath
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Is this the same David Geary that wrote, among others, "Advanced
> >>> JavaServer Pages?"
> >>
> >> Yes.
> >
> > David was also a member of the JSR-52 expert group (JSTL), and he's on
> 
> > the
> > JSR-127 expert group (JavaServer Faces) as well.
> >
> > I've never been a fan of having SQL tags (especially the updating 
> > ones) in
> > JSTL, for all the obvious reasons.  However, there are a whole bunch
> of
> > developers in the world who are used to model 1 style development (VB,
> 
> > PHP,
> > PERL, Cold Fusion, ...), and it would not be fair for expert groups to
> > ignore the needs of those developers, simply because we might not like
> 
> > what
> > people will do with the result.  This was a case where the group 
> > creating
> > the standard was actually listening to what users wanted.
> >
> > Beyond that, it *is* feasible to separate business logic and 
> > presentation
> > logic into separate JSP pages, and enjoy the fact that the page is
> > automatically recompiled without needing the app to be restarted.  
> > Couple
> > that with the fact that Struts lets you say that a particular <action>
> > really does a RequestDispatcher.include(), and you've suddenly got the
> > ability to program Actions as JSP pages ... sort of a mind twisting
> > approach, but it seems like it would be feasible in scenarios where
> the
> > business logic is simple enough to be scripted in JSP tags that are 
> > only
> > used for their side effects, not for their output (which would get 
> > thrown
> > away anyway when Struts ultimately forwards to the presentation JSP). 
> 
> > In
> > such a scenario, having SQL access tags would make a lot of sense.
> >
> >>
> >>
> >> david
> >
> > Craig
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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> 
> 
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> 


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