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From Vic Cekvenich>
Subject Re: Java Server Faces with Struts - or Not
Date Fri, 16 May 2003 14:25:29 GMT
As you might know, Sun's JSF is not itself an open source license, like 
Struts, but a vendor license. I semi-quote from Sun license on JSF  :
"Sun hereby grants you  .... a limited license (to evaluate only). This 
license includes the right to discuss the Specification with other 
licenses of the Specification.  This license will expire the date on 
which the final version of the Specification is publicly released. In 
addition, this license will terminate immediately without notice from 
Sun if you fail to comply with any provision of this license. Upon 
termination, you must cease use of or destroy the Specification.".  This 
reads like MS.

Sun's iPlanet is not the only one to have a framework, Oracle also has a 
framework called Cleveland ( I lost a prospective consulting gig to 
Oracle's Cleveland framework recently). So indications are that there 
might be run time fees for Sun's version of JSF. If there are run time 
fees (like they have for iPlanet EJB per runtime CPU pricing), this 
makes it not useful in commercial applications, but maybe corporate 
applications that do not find  MS WebForms productive will purchase JSF 
framework once it is released by vendors.
JSF appears to be a heavier weight framework, with event processing, and 
in theory that is good, but I have in the past found heavier frameworks 
more limiting. Before anyone uses JSF, they should read the JSF spec. to 
see if this is what they like this becuase when released, it will have 
all that (heavy I think) stuff in it. Also, currently most rich user 
interfaces do a lot of JavaScript. For example a tree control in 
JavaScript expands in browser using client side CPU (supporting more 
concurent clients). In JSF, idea is that this and more should be done on 
the server, each click on a tree submitted AFAIK. For those reasons, 
basicPortal, under Apache license will release more actionscript to get 
free runtime license and client side execution
and to get rich UI better than web forms such as this example web app:

To that end, I took some SOAPy ideas for Struts ideas and made a list 
backed FormBean emit XML (of the list), which action script understands. Ex:

This formbean XML can be read on the browser in rich UI from Mac, Linux, 
Windoze, Palm devices, with minimal "cross browser" issues due to a plug 
in, reducing issues. (Also since the plug in, most of UI executes on 
browser, such as a tree expanding, which would be processed on the 
server in JSF). It also reads XML validation rules.

Last, there are lots of Struts developers, that will be working on 
version 2.0 of Struts as a open source standard.
My favorite feature of Struts is that it is light weight, and ... if I 
get called to do project recovery of Cleveland or JSF, I will use Struts 
(maybe some action script)


Chris Hardin wrote:

>  Look into the future and you will see JSF and Struts working together. There is already
a Struts-faces project out there that uses JSF. I currently use Struts, Struts-EL, JSTL, Struts
Faces and Java Server Faces all together in the same project in Tomcat and no problems whatsoever.
JSF will not replace Struts, but merely compliment it.
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Yinti, Deepak []
>Sent: Thursday, May 15, 2003 3:14 PM
>To: Struts Users Mailing List
>Subject: Java Server Faces with Struts
>Can somebody tell me what's the future of using Struts. Is Java Server
>Faces going to take over Struts . What is this JSTL all about.
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Vic Cekvenich,
Struts Instructor,

Advanced <a href ="">Struts Training</a> and project recovery in
North East. 
Open Source <a href ="">Content Management</a>  basicPortal sofware
Best practice<a href ="">Struts Support</a> v.1.1 helper ScafflodingXPress

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