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From Jeff Kyser <>
Subject Re: Exadel Struts Studio. Message from the Source.
Date Thu, 01 May 2003 22:19:46 GMT

If you re-read my e-mail you will not see any criticism of the product 
itself, nor
any personal attacks on its developers. Or at least I don't see any.

I have not downloaded [Studio], and therefore have nothing to say about 
its capabilities.
That is the only degree to which I consider that I have disregarded the 
But I simply don't have time to download / evaluate every product, 
java-related, or otherwise regardless of how wonderful it may be.

I use this list to seek specific technical help on Struts usage issues, 
and to try to
provide answers to others when I can.

If the list charter includes allowing posts on struts-related products, 
then I'll
just set up my little ANN filter, and that will be the last of it from 



On Thursday, May 1, 2003, at 04:45  PM, Sergey Smirnov wrote:

> We did the current version of Struts Studio for FREE use. We spend our 
> time and resources trying to make a tool that helps developers, 
> especially newbies, to hide complexity of the technology. Personally, 
> I work hard for last several months since 7am till 2am each day, 
> included weekends, to do this job.
> And what is the result. You said that everything I did is just a span. 
> Thank you, of course, for your suggestion, but I am not ready to buy 
> it. I just see only  disregard to colleagues here and nothing more.
> -- 
> Sergey Smirnov
> Exadel Struts Studio Architect
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: Jeff Kyser
>   To: Struts Users Mailing List
>   Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2003 2:03 PM
>   Subject: Re: [ANN] New release of Exadel Struts Studio
>   I don't have anything personal against Exadel other than that I
>   view product announcements showing up on a user list as
>   yet another form of junk mail I didn't really want to receive.
>   (I guess I could set up a filter to get rid of ANN - who
>   is she anyway? - LOL)
>   If the charter for the struts-user list includes encouraging folks
>   to sell their 'struts-related' tools on the list, then I guess that
>   makes me the odd man out.
>   Just seems that most folks have generally selected a tool and
>   are working with it already, or we get into IDE wars that start
>   with somebody mentioning emacs and somebody else hurling
>   anathemas like 'lisp boy', and it going rapidly downhill into
>   useless banter from there...
>   Were I king, there'd be a product links page somewhere on
>   the Struts page (probably already is), and whoever maintained
>   the links would yank the link of any company who posted
>   their latest product offerings to the list.
>   And, as my second act as king, I'd get the 'struts boot camp' to
>   develop a site that let individuals post their opinions about the
>   products and hang that off the struts pages as well, and then
>   everyone who so desired could hawk their favorite IDE or
>   tool or blast it for its features/license 'til the cows come home...
>   regards,
>   -jeff
>   On Thursday, May 1, 2003, at 03:13  PM, James Mitchell wrote:
>> On Thu, 2003-05-01 at 15:55, Josh Rayls wrote:
>>> Like the previous emailer, I too, was was surprised to see yet
>>> another ad
>>> for your product on here, hence my reply.  The question was "Is 
>>> anyone
>>> actually using this?"
>>> It seems a little obnoxious to post ads to the Struts mailing list 
>>> for
>>> commercial products.  I don't think anyone clicked the "send offers
>>> for new
>>> products" checkbox when joining the list-- not to mention that the
>>> license
>>> is rediculous.
>> Sorry, but I disagree.  I welcome all announcements for new and
>> existing
>> struts-related products, commercial or not.
>> (this is not aimed at Josh, but to everyone)
>> I find it a bit unfair that a few people on this list have chosen to
>> pick on this product because of their own lack of understanding about
>> standard licensing verbage.  Have you checked out the license for all
>> other tools/components that have sent announcements to this list?  I
>> doubt it.
>> If you hadn't noticed, the Apache license is a "business friendly"
>> license.  You are supposed to make money using these tools.
>> Let's get off Igor's case.  I'm happy to see corporate support for
>> Struts.  Sorry, but I just like having the choices.
>> ...and that's my 2 cents.
>>> -Josh
>> -- 
>> James Mitchell
>> Software Developer/Struts Evangelist
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