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From "Andrew Hill" <andrew.david.h...@gridnode.com>
Subject RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE - The Two Towers
Date Tue, 21 Jan 2003 16:18:42 GMT
Im surprised sich developers have jobs in todays market.
Surely there must be a glut of more experienced developers that can be
obtained at the same price?

-----Original Message-----
From: s.frank@vierundsechzig.de [mailto:s.frank@vierundsechzig.de]
Sent: Wednesday, 22 January 2003 00:15
To: struts-user@jakarta.apache.org; s.frank@vierundsechzig.de;
jchilders@hotels.com
Subject: AW: [OT] Eclipse IDE - The Two Towers


ok, I think it's time for us all, to lower our standards: Talking about
newbies: The newbies I mean have just started Java. They think R/3 is a
piece of good Software instead of a piece of crappy scripts. They asked
things like: "What do you mean with Transaction?",  "Huh, why a database
*and* an applicationserver?". And if you ask them for their favourite
tool, they show you a Chainsaw and a Screwdriver(ok, only the better ones
have screwdrivers). If you tell them: Use what makes you more productive
they stick to paper&pencil. I understand them, if you start there, there
is nothing you can decide upon. You have to tell them: But if you have
more than one senior-coder, it would be nice if they agreed on what they
tell them...


--- Urspr√ľngliche Nachricht ---
Datum: 21.01.2003 16:48
Von: "James Childers" <jchilders@hotels.com>
An: "Struts Users Mailing List" <struts-user@jakarta.apache.org>,
<s.frank@vierundsechzig.de>
Betreff: RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE - The Two Towers

> This isn't about "expressing your individuality", it's about doing what
makes you -- the coder -- more productive. If it's your job to write code,
and you feel more comfortable using your favorite tool, then by all means
use it.
>
> As far as administrative costs are concerned: Coders are smart enough to
troubleshoot their own boxes, and if they're not then they damn well
should be.
>
> Newbies? I challenge the notion that forcing new toolsets on them is
productive in the long run. It is completely within the realm of
possibility that they will have a shorter ramp-up time if they are able to
use tools they are already familiar with to integrate with existing
standards.
>
> In short: I have never encountered a development environment where it
would be better to standardize upon a single, monolithic work environment
for all developers. Some people like Emacs, some like Eclipse, some like
directly editing bytecode with a hex editor. Whatever. So long as the
project gets done on time, on budget, and meets the requirements *it
doesn't matter*.
>
> -= J
>
> PS: I am currently working on a team of 12 developers who each use their
own toolset. We are ahead of schedule and under budget.
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: s.frank@vierundsechzig.de [mailto:s.frank@vierundsechzig.de]
> > Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 9:30 AM
> > To: struts-user@jakarta.apache.org
> > Subject: AW: [OT] Eclipse IDE - The Two Towers
> >
> >
> > I think there exist many and more fruitful ways to express your
> > individuality than using IDE A rather than that ide B.
> >
> > If the IDE is not important, why not standardize one: Makes
> > it easier for
> > administrators to setup new boxes, allows to pass the box to another
> > member of your team, allows to use the same plug-ins and so
> > on: Just think
> > about Integration with version-Control: Cowboy-Coder A uses
> > Eclipse which
> > has a bug with Perforce-Integration, Cowboy-Coder B insists on using
> > IntelliJ, which has no Perforce-Integration at all: And the
> > Newbie-Coder
> > comes in and is totally confused as there exist three ways of
> > setting up
> > your enviroment. No Standards at all are ok if you have a team-size
of
> > one...
> >
> > --- Urspr√ľngliche Nachricht ---
> > Datum: 21.01.2003 16:20
> > Von: "James Childers" <jchilders@hotels.com>
> > An: "Struts Users Mailing List" <struts-user@jakarta.apache.org>
> > Betreff: RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE - The Two Towers
> >
> > >
> > > I second this. Different people work in different ways;
> > standardizing an
> > IDE for every developer ignores this rather key fact of human
> > nature. If
> > my company were to standardize on an IDE that some people don't like,
> > they're just going to be frustrated and bitter, decreasing
> > productivity.
> > >
> > > *shudder* Thank Baal they don't do that at my company.
> > Everybody can use
> > whatever development tools they want, so long as the code compiles
and
> > passes the unit tests.
> > >
> > > I use Eclipse and Vim, primarily. If management tried to
> > take away Vim I
> > would have to tell them to... well... You get the idea.
> > >
> > > Speaking of which, I've been tinkering with IDEA lately,
> > and it looks
> > quite promising. Tight, and as fast as Eclipse. Plus I like
> > the fact that
> > I can do everything within it without using the keyboard. And
> > it can do
> > regexp search and replaces, which is one of the main things keeping
me
> > married to Vim right now.
> > >
> > > -= J
> > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Alex [mailto:axs@m-net.arbornet.org]
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 9:16 AM
> > > > To: Struts Users Mailing List
> > > > Subject: Re: [OT] Eclipse IDE - The Two Towers
> > > >
> > > > On Tue, 21 Jan 2003, Daniel H. F. e Silva wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > My boss wants a standard environment to all developers. So,
> > > > order is order.
> > > > >  I think his concern about this task is to improve
> > > > productivity. So, what is more productive?
> > > >
> > > > If he wants productivity then let the developers use the
> > > > tools they are
> > > > familiar with.
> > > >
> > >
>
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>



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