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From "Joe Barefoot" <Joe.Baref...@motiva.com>
Subject RE: using O/R mapping tools
Date Mon, 26 Aug 2002 18:07:31 GMT
I'm on the west coast.  Rather flexible working hours.  Loosened your tie yet? ;)

peace,
Joe

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Galbreath, Mark [mailto:Galbreath@tessco.com]
> Sent: Monday, August 26, 2002 11:07 AM
> To: 'Struts Users Mailing List'
> Subject: RE: using O/R mapping tools
> 
> 
> ;-)  find a job yet?  You seem to be sleeping rather late!
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Joe Barefoot [mailto:Joe.Barefoot@motiva.com]
> Sent: Monday, August 26, 2002 1:59 PM
> To: Struts Users Mailing List
> Subject: RE: using O/R mapping tools
> 
> 
> hmmm...Just noticed your [sic] after wiping morning crud from 
> my eyes.  Your
> grammatical faux pas was illustrative, not accidental.  Nice.
> 
> peace,
> Joe
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Joe Barefoot 
> > Sent: Monday, August 26, 2002 10:48 AM
> > To: Struts Users Mailing List
> > Subject: RE: using O/R mapping tools
> > 
> > 
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Galbreath, Mark [mailto:Galbreath@tessco.com]
> > > Sent: Friday, August 23, 2002 12:01 PM
> > > To: 'Struts Users Mailing List'
> > > Subject: RE: using O/R mapping tools
> > > 
> > > 
> > > As I pointed out, it's a common mistake.  I have a 
> graduate minor in
> > > statistics, so it's just a pet peeve and nothing more. I 
> > > could care less
> > > [sic] about your grammar.
> > 
> > 
> > I hardly think it's a mistake if one uses the term and 
> > everyone in the room assumes the popular meaning except the 
> > one person who dogmatically clings to the diagram in their 
> > old college psychology textbook.  Speaking of pet peeves, to 
> > be gramatically accurate, it's "couldn't care less".  To say 
> > that you "could care less" implies that you care plenty 
> > already.  :)   
> > 
> > 
> > b.t.w., here's what most people envisage when they think 
> > "steep learning curve".  All the textbooks and mailing list 
> > arguments in the world aren't going to change that.
> > 
> > 
> > Effort                    
> > 	|                 -   -   - 
> > 	|             -
> > 	|         -
> > 	|       -
> > 	|      -
> > 	|     -
> > 	|    -
> > 	|   -
> > 	|  -
> > 	|___________________________________
> > 	
> > 		Proficiency
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > > 
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: wbchmura@Ensign-BickfordInd.com
> > > [mailto:wbchmura@Ensign-BickfordInd.com]
> > > Sent: Friday, August 23, 2002 2:54 PM
> > > To: struts-user@jakarta.apache.org
> > > Subject: RE: using O/R mapping tools
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Hmmmm.
> > > 
> > > I just could not stomach it so I did some checkng...
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Read this one first...
> > > Common sense warns that there is no advantage to using a word 
> > > correctly 
> > > if you know that the vast majority of your hearers will 
> > misunderstand 
> > > your meaning. Consider the terms "thumbs up" and "thumbs 
> > down": Most 
> > > people are aware that these expressions derive from the 
> > > ancient public 
> > > entertainments at the Roman Colosseum, where the 
> presiding official 
> > > would rule on whether a vanquished gladiator should be spared 
> > > or slain. 
> > > But did you know that "thumbs up" was the sign for "kill him" 
> > > and thumb 
> > > sideways was the sign for "let him live"? So when someone 
> > > tells you that 
> > > your project got the thumbs up from upper management, should 
> > > you start 
> > > checking the help-wanted ads? We 
> > > http://www.crh.noaa.gov/library/Grammar/Learn-curve.html
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Every result except for the above shows a steep learning 
> > > curve as a bad 
> > > thing...  Right or wrong, its common usage...
> > > 
> > > I want to go home...
> > > 
> > > 
> > > STEEP LEARNING CURVE
> > > Rookie Quarterback Zolman Tackles Complicated Scheme
> > > Things aren't entirely different. That's the positive part 
> > > now for Greg 
> > > Zolman - part of the positive part, anyway. Here's the tricky 
> > > part: What 
> > > he's learning is very complicated. 
> > > http://www.colts.com/sub.cfm?page=article7&news_id=711
> > > 
> > > 
> > > BUSH IS ON A STEEP LEARNING CURVE, JUST LIKE THE REST OF US
> > > George W Bush appears to be on a near-vertical global 
> > learning curve. 
> > > And it is not just him. In the past two weeks the world has been 
> > > changing astonishingly quickly beneath our feet and 
> > commentators are 
> > > running to keep up.
> > > http://www.guardian.co.uk/Columnists/Column/0,5673,558293,00.html
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Myth: ODBMSs have a steep learning curve
> > > The myth that ODBMSs have a steep learning curve is easily 
> > dispelled. 
> > > Using an ODBMS primarily involves knowing an object programming 
> > > language. For examples, see transparent persistence (new window).
> > > If you know Java or C++, there is very little additional 
> > > syntax that you 
> > > need to learn in order to use an ODBMS. There are 
> > additional database 
> > > commands for opening and closing databases along with 
> starting and 
> > > committing transactions. But that is about all -- hardly a steep 
> > > learning curve. If you do not know Java or C++, there is learning 
> > > involved. That learning, however, involves mastering the 
> > programming 
> > > language and not the ODBMS.
> > > http://www.odbmsfacts.com/articles/myth_odbms_have_a_steep_lea
> > > rning_curve.ht
> > > ml
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Steep learning curve
> > > First-time users of Finale can expect to invest weeks or 
> > even months 
> > > learning how to drive this thing. And, unlike a bicycle, you 
> > > can easily 
> > > forget how to do it if away from it for a while.
> > > Finale is complicated, powerful, and often non-intuitive in 
> > > its design, 
> > > although ease of use improves perceptibly with each release. 
> > > Coda seems 
> > > to listen to its customers on questions of interface and features.
> > > http://www.research.umbc.edu/eol/5/signell/steep.html
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Galbreath [mailto:Galbreath@tessco.com]
> > > Sent: Friday, August 23, 2002 2:35 PM
> > > To: struts-user
> > > Subject: RE: using O/R mapping tools
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Yep.  Think of the y axis as productivity and the x axis as 
> > > time.  You 
> > > want
> > > a curve going from 0.0 to max-y,min-x.  This would plot out 
> > > as a "steep"
> > > curve, indicating learning the most in the smalled amount of time.
> > > 
> > > A "flat" curve is the opposite - learn very little over a 
> > considerable
> > > amount of time.
> > > 
> > > Thus, a "steep" learning curve means it was "easy;" a 
> > "flat" learning 
> > > curve
> > > means it was difficult.
> > > 
> > > Mark
> > > 
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: wbchmura@Ensign-BickfordInd.com
> > > [mailto:wbchmura@Ensign-BickfordInd.com]
> > > Sent: Friday, August 23, 2002 2:21 PM
> > > To: struts-user@jakarta.apache.org
> > > Subject: RE: using O/R mapping tools
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Really?  Thats &*#(@!-up...  Are you sure?
> > > 
> > > 
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Galbreath [mailto:Galbreath@tessco.com]
> > > Sent: Friday, August 23, 2002 2:00 PM
> > > To: struts-user
> > > Subject: RE: using O/R mapping tools
> > > 
> > > 
> > > You mean "flat."  Common mistake....  A steep learning curve is 
> > > desirable.
> > > 
> > > Mark
> > > 
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Eddie Bush [mailto:ekbush@swbell.net]
> > > Sent: Friday, August 23, 2002 12:57 PM
> > > 
> > > I found the initial learning curve to be rather steep.  I 
> > > blame this on 
> > > my using an outdated version of my JDBC driver.  It "seemed 
> > hard" at 
> > > first simply because of that.  In reality, had I built my 
> > JDBC driver 
> > > 
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