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From "Yu, Yanhui" <yanhui...@pioneer.com>
Subject RE: Struts Community Opportunity
Date Thu, 07 Mar 2002 20:48:14 GMT
Ghoot,

As a newcomer, I thank you for this proposal to re organizing the struts
documentation.  I know it is probably my own fault that I can't understand
exactly what the doc says sometimes but I still hope the doc can show the
new users easier way!

Thanks again,
Yanhui

-----Original Message-----
From: Emaho, Ghoot [mailto:Ghoot@PETROTECHNICS.co.uk]
Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 7:08 AM
To: Struts Users Mailing List
Subject: Struts Community Opportunity


Hello all

I think there is an opportunity here, particularly with the imminent 1.1
release. I imagine there are going to be a whole bunch of new questions when
1.1 is released. There IS a lot of documentation for Struts. The work Ted
and others have done is great. But perhaps a new perspective on the docs
(particularly for newbies) might be prudent.

I know from my own experience that how these docs are organised and
presented can have a big effect on their usefuleness. Those of us who've
been using Struts for a longest can see how the user base has increased
dramatically, and I can only see this increasing with the release of 1.1.
Perhaps now is a good time to consider possible changes/refactoring of the
docs that would help inform new users and 'alleviate' some of the burden on
the list.

I know the docs as is are good, but thats easy for us to say when we know,
pretty much, how it works and hangs together :)

I'd be happy to offer some suggestions and effort in this regard - and I'm
sure others would too. I have experience in organising this type of content
on a large scale - especially for 'newbies', so maybe I have a different
perspective.

I'm not intending to step on anyones toes ! Any new work would obviously
build upon the existing site and Ted's great site.

Now for a shameless plug....Chiki (http://chiki.emaho.org) is being
developed by myself and others, and this is one of the ways it can be used,
for community building and content management. Perhaps somewhere down the
line we could have a Struts Community site powered by Chiki, with all the
relevant resources. As it is based upon Wiki this content can be dynamically
updated and managed, and there is suitable access control provided ! (well
in a release coming out very soon) Think 'The Server Side' devoted to
Struts. It would dramatically reduce the load on the mailing list, as well
as serving as a focal point for all things Struts. I imagine there would be
a group of administrators obviously, but it would also allow others to
contribute too, thereby lightening the load on everyone helping with the
list. I could go on and on about the benefits !

I'm not saying Chiki is the only answer, but I'm just volunteering something
that seems a great fit for the 'problem'. In the next 4-6 weeks Chiki will
be ready for such usage.

I'd love to see a Struts community using chiki (since it's built on Struts),
taking the whole Struts experience to a new level, one which can not only
cope with increased user base, but would positively thrive on it.

Even if people dont think this is the way to go, then I'd still be happy to
offer advise perspective and effort re the Documentation.

Please let me know what you all think

Thanks

Ghoot


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Galbreath, Mark [mailto:Galbreath@tessco.com]
> Sent: 06 March 2002 12:43
> To: 'Struts Users Mailing List'
> Subject: RE: Newbie Struts and Jbuilder6
> 
> 
> I do not "vent anger" at newbies though I may be stern at 
> times, and I, too,
> remember what it is like learning something new...because I 
> do it everyday.
> I appreciate your generosity but I go by the old adage, "Give 
> a man a fish
> and he'll not be hungry today; teach him to fish and he'll 
> never be hungry."
> Sometimes your generosity works to the detriment of those you 
> wish to help.
> And, as I said, it encourages more laziness on a list that is 
> already way
> too busy handling inane queries.
> 
> No flame war - have a beer!
> 
> Cheers!
> Mark
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Emaho, Ghoot [mailto:Ghoot@PETROTECHNICS.co.uk]
> Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 7:19 AM
> 
> Mark
> 
> While I understand your frustration, I dont share it !
> 
> I was happy to help. 
> 
> You seem to vent a lot of frustration at newbie users. So 
> they havent read
> all the docs - so what ! I remember what its like to be a 
> beginner and come
> up against people with your attitude. Chill out and stop 
> giving them such a
> hard time. You can still 'point them at the docs' in a 
> friendly manner. 
> 
> You act as though this list is your personal property 
> sometimes ! Newbies
> are welcome, and if they need reminding 100 times about the 
> doc then fine.
> Bear in mind that for a newcomer, the documentation can be 
> confusing and
> misleading. While everyone who has contributed has done a 
> good job, it can
> be daunting for a complete newcomer. I dont think this is the 
> place for you
> to vent your anger at them.
> 
> And I hope you can see the humour in my response :) I know it can be
> frustrating seeing the same q's again and again, but you dont HAVE to
> respond every time someone asks a dumb question, do you ? 
> 
> I'm not looking for a flame war, but sometimes you are just 
> too rude. Take
> it somewhere else - off this list !
> 
> Hope you take this in the spirit it is intended
> 
> Take care
> 
> Ghoot
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Galbreath, Mark [mailto:Galbreath@tessco.com]
> > Sent: 06 March 2002 12:13
> > To: 'Struts Users Mailing List'
> > Subject: RE: Newbie Struts and Jbuilder6
> > 
> > 
> > You going to spoon-feed him, too?  This integration is 
> > clearly explained in
> > the documentation; the guy didn't even bother to look.  By 
> > answering such
> > lame questions you encourage more lame questions.
> > 
> > Mark
> > 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Emaho, Ghoot [mailto:Ghoot@PETROTECHNICS.co.uk]
> > Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 7:09 AM
> > To: Struts Users Mailing List
> > Subject: RE: Newbie Struts and Jbuilder6
> > 
> > 
> > Goto 'Tools | Configure Libraries' menu, add new entry, and 
> > select your
> > Struts.jar.
> > 
> > Then goto 'Project | Project Properties' menu select the 'required
> > libraries' tab, select add and then choose your newly added struts.
> > 
> > This then enables struts within your project.
> > 
> > Hope this helps
> > 
> > Ghoot
> > 
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Sam Lai [mailto:Sam.Lai@macquarie.com]
> > > Sent: 06 March 2002 00:07
> > > To: Struts Users Mailing List
> > > Subject: Newbie Struts and Jbuilder6
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Hi,
> > > 
> > > Can anyone show me how to integrate struts in Jbuilder6?
> > > 
> > > thanks,
> > > SAM
> > > 
> > > 
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