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From Ted Husted <>
Subject Re: Barracuda vs. Struts (request for review)
Date Tue, 28 Aug 2001 21:59:01 GMT
> I understand that Struts utilizes both roles. I'm just trying to make the
> point that the main value in Struts is for the "page author" role. I don't
> think it just an issue of JSP or not...I see very little architectural
> distinction between JSP, ASP, and custom "pull-mvc" templating approaches.
> So I'm looking for a term that encompasses the commonality of those
> approaches...the centrality appears to be the idea of putting stuff in the
> page along with the client side markup.

The problem is that you may be lumping Struts in with Cold Fusion, ASP,
and Model 1 JSP. While Struts uses JSP, it does not encourage people to 
use them the way ASPs or Cold Fusion pages are used, or even Model 1

Honestly, I think Struts and Barracuda are in the same category here.
The contrast being something like Dreamweaver UltraDev. 

> I'm afraid I don't follow this at all. The point I am attempting to make in
> #2 is that even if developers don't use scriptlets, the use of tag-libs (at
> least if you use conditionals or iterative tags) effectively mixes
> "programming logic" in with your markup. While I have heard this justified
> by calling it "presentation logic" (thereby it's ok to mix it in), in my
> mind its not compelling--the tags logic is evaluated and processed on the
> server, the markup on the client. To me this breaks the clean separation
> (and as such its a valid criticm).

Personally, if I'm betting my job on the choice of a presentation
technology, whether or not it "enforces" the separation of model and
view, or "prohibits" logical constructs, would be on the bottom of my
list. All else being equal, that's something I can enforce on my own. In
fact, I may actually want the option of a quick fix. Some ship dates
can't slip, and I may need every resource ;-) 

I would be the first to argue that tiers are good, but that last to
argue that we need shackles to get people to use them.


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