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From "Christian Grobmeier" <>
Subject Re: Less boilerplate in code
Date Mon, 26 May 2014 13:53:21 GMT
On 24 May 2014, at 17:11, Dave Newton wrote:

> On May 24, 2014 8:09 AM, "Christian Grobmeier" <> 
> wrote:
>> I didn't know this: {0.enrollmentDate,date,yyyy-MM-dd} would call
> SimpleDateFormat.
> I find it reasonably obvious this is formatting a date.

My point is you have to learn about it. There is no code completion to 
help you.
Maybe you can imagine this is formatting a date because there is some 
given, but I can't tell whats the "date" parameter for. I would have to 
read the

I don't want to force our users reading docs except our own. You could
argue slf4j needs some doc reading itself, but many developers may have 
done so already.
Its more widespread and probably a better investment of time.

> I also don't see  anything confusing about the call itself. I prefer 
> code
> to be distilled to its essence. In this case, logging, I'd rather 
> focus on
> what I'm logging than the mechanics of Java. A giant chunk of code in 
> the
> middle of what I'm *really* doing is distracting and takes the focus 
> away
> from the problem being solved.

If there is a lot of code hidden from you, then there is a lot code
which might be buggy. Nobody prevents you to use that framework if you
like it that much, but that is nothing which a framework like Struts
should dictate. Instead I believe Struts should stick to common sense
wherever possible, and logging is one of these cases.

> This is true of Java in general, but I don't want to be overwhelmed by
> secondary concerns while reading code, whenever possible.
> While I don't necessarily advocate this as the *only* solution, I 
> wouldn't
> mind introducing some minor syntax in format strings. I do wonder if 
> it
> should fit in better with an existing EL rather than introducing yet
> another, though.

When it comes to logging i am a purist. People already complain because
there are too many logging solutions around today, I don't think it 
make any sense to have something special for Struts. There is some stuff
people can use, why are we not using what everybody else uses?

In regards to Onyx, I have a few more reasons why I would like to avoid 
introduction. In example:

  - maintained by a single person - who fixes the bugs, when there are 
some? See OGNL.
  - in 2013 only two commits were made - no very active
  - haven't seen the package on maven central repos
  - not wide spread, 18 downloads for each version
  - small version number tells me there is not yet trust in stability

For technical reasons I don't like it's syntax and think it's way to 
reflection for solving a simple problem.

To be honest (and sorry, Chris, I really think it was lot of work and 
are quite talented) I would prefer to the custom logging we have and 
instead of using a pretty unknown, exotic logging wrapper.

That's my two cents, and now I will shut up for a few days on the matter
to give others space to breath.


> Dave

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