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From: Chris Pratt <thechrispratt@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2014 22:43:11 -0800
Message-ID: 
 <CAALdY0xi7962WpUdg-49bHedMwbSZSY-iUXg9q2MHjiGGQZjjg@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: New logo
To: Struts Developers List <dev@struts.apache.org>
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I like it, and I agree a nice Cobalt Blue would rock.
  (*Chris*)


On Thu, Mar 6, 2014 at 10:40 PM, info@flyingfischer.ch <
info@flyingfischer.ch> wrote:

> The Logo looks nice. Has a slight reference to the art work of M.C.
> Escher. Great work.
>
> Blue is always nice ;-)
>
> The typography however gives the whole logo a not too modern touch,
> because it uses letters with serifs. I wonder if this will match nicely
> with the serif free home page of struts 2?
>
> Best regards
> Markus Fischer
>
> Am 07.03.2014 06:50, schrieb Lukasz Lenart:
>
>  Link if attachment is missing
>> https://copy.com/MXrnIYz8KajY
>>
>> 2014-03-07 0:01 GMT+01:00 Chris Pratt <thechrispratt@gmail.com>:
>>
>>> I must have missed it, I don't see anything??
>>>    (*Chris*)
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Mar 6, 2014 at 2:00 PM, Lukasz Lenart <lukaszlenart@apache.org>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>  Work continues, 3rd version of logo, wdyt? I think dark-blue version
>>>> would be also nice.
>>>>
>>>> 2013-11-26 8:59 GMT+01:00 Lukasz Lenart <lukaszlenart@apache.org>:
>>>>
>>>>> I have passed your comment to designer - anyway we have time and we
>>>>> can always start over when the first logo won't be good enough ;-)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Reagrds
>>>>> --
>>>>> =C5=81ukasz
>>>>> + 48 606 323 122 http://www.lenart.org.pl/
>>>>>
>>>>> 2013/11/24 Rene Gielen <rene.gielen@gmail.com>:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Am 20.11.13 14:52, schrieb Christian Grobmeier:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 12 Nov 2013, at 16:51, Lukasz Lenart wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>  2013/11/12 Cameron Morris <cmorris@part.net>:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I love the look of steampunk and rickety old bridges, but I think
>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>> sends
>>>>>>>>> the wrong message for a project fighting the perception of being
>>>>>>>>> old
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>
>>>>>  legacy.  I'd say the more modern looking the better.  However, some
>>>>>>>>> of the
>>>>>>>>> more modern bridges look so space age it might be hard to tell th=
at
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> they
>>>>
>>>>>  are bridges if they are made into a small icon.  Perhaps some of
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> these
>>>>
>>>>>  might spark an idea: http://www.flickr.com/search/?q=3Dmodern%20brid=
ge
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hmm... you know everything new someday will be old anyway ;-) I'd
>>>>>>>> rather say let's focus on having cool logo and not the message it
>>>>>>>> sends ;-)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> +1 on the cool logo NOW instead of wasting more time.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Its always funny with us devs. We have a crap logo for years.
>>>>>>> Somebody shows up and contributes a fantastic logo (compared to the
>>>>>>> other one).
>>>>>>> Suddenly all devs become designers and social media communicators.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You are right with our out-of-style old logo, and that things should
>>>>>> change here. But why exactly are we in such a hurry? Going too long
>>>>>> with
>>>>>> an old logo does not mean that a new logo should replace the old one
>>>>>> as
>>>>>> soon as it is just "better". IMHO we would want to replace it with
>>>>>> something that satisfies us for years. It should be cool and catchy
>>>>>> now
>>>>>> and in five years. "Fantastic compared to the other one" is IMO not
>>>>>> enough. Do we want old-time users to be surprised to find better log=
o
>>>>>> now, or do we want anyone stumbling over our site or a Zeroturnaroun=
d
>>>>>> web frameworks survey to think "hey man, nice logo!"?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm not a social media designer, and for that reason I need to
>>>>>> interact
>>>>>> with a designer. I need inspiration and suggestions to formulate in
>>>>>> turn
>>>>>> which directions to go for the next iteration. Since I'm not a
>>>>>> designer,
>>>>>> I'm for sure too lame with my own cool logo proposal.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Over all the years I was involved with design tasks, I've seen desig=
n
>>>>>> emerge after some iterations in a process similar to what I outlined
>>>>>> above. I have never ever experienced being given a first proposal th=
at
>>>>>> makes it directly to production.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Personally I am super-happy that we have such a great proposal.
>>>>>>> And if we don't have another option (one of us devs IS a designer A=
ND
>>>>>>> does some work)
>>>>>>> we should definitely consider it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm super happy with the work being done, and I like some of the ide=
as
>>>>>> incorporated in the first proposals. I like the fact that someone
>>>>>> steps
>>>>>> up and is kind enough to donate work and creativity, and I am super
>>>>>> thankful for that - and, to be honest, it makes me bit shy to provid=
e
>>>>>> too much criticism, especially since it is not my profession the
>>>>>> actual
>>>>>> work is all about.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I went back and forth many times the last two weeks to think and
>>>>>> re-think if I like the logo, how it might be seen, and what well
>>>>>> founded
>>>>>> criticism I could give. In my review I tried to both incorporate wha=
t
>>>>>> I
>>>>>> as a non-professional know about design, as well as what I as a
>>>>>> "professional design recipient" (read: consumer) feel when I see the
>>>>>>
>>>>> logo.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Some of my thoughts:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Most common to me seems a combination of a dedicated logo icon with =
a
>>>>>> clean writing for the brand, or just an elaborate writing without lo=
go
>>>>>> icon. From time to time you see some font gimmickry to make a pure
>>>>>> writing recognizable. But I have failed so far to come up with a
>>>>>> example
>>>>>> for a iconified design building a writing and a font design.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Have a look at those two sites (scroll to bottom on both)
>>>>>> http://devoxx.be/#/sponsors
>>>>>> http://www.gopivotal.com/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There a good bunch of logos, both of companies and open source
>>>>>> projects,
>>>>>> that look cool, clean and modern, yet timeless.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If you want to follow newest hipster logo trends, http://gruntjs.com=
/
>>>>>> might be a source for inspiration. Nevertheless, this seems to be no=
t
>>>>>> so
>>>>>> much on the timeless side...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That said and reviewed many times during last week, I'm more in favo=
r
>>>>>> for the combination of an icon symbol combined with with a clean and
>>>>>> modern typographic font for the brand name Struts.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Stepping back a bit when viewing the proposed designs, what strikes =
me
>>>>>> most is that iconified graphic elements are used to construct a font=
.
>>>>>> How does this font look like? It does not seem to follow all of the
>>>>>> well
>>>>>> established rules for font design. If you color it completely black
>>>>>> from
>>>>>> the outline and reduce it to the font shape, it does not look like
>>>>>> very
>>>>>> "clean" typography, even a bit clunky. But besides (or even more
>>>>>> than?)
>>>>>> graphical details and tasteful colouring, the shape makes the first
>>>>>> impression to a viewer. I doubt that it is a good idea to bind the
>>>>>> font
>>>>>> shape of a writing to iconified graphics as building blocks, as this
>>>>>> limits how elaborate the typographic shape itself will look like.
>>>>>> Designing a font is a science by itself, you can find tons of
>>>>>> information on the web. Just for some reading giving an impression:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  http://designshack.net/articles/typography/8-rules-
>>>> for-creating-effective-typography/
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> As for me, this breaks down to: I have tried to like it, but - as
>>>>>> proposed so far - I don't. This is my honest personal view. And I al=
so
>>>>>> think it is a great starting point to go into design iteration. It
>>>>>> teases me to think, it gives the inspiration someone like me needs t=
o
>>>>>> imagine and maybe phrase what he thinks the final logo (or a next
>>>>>> step)
>>>>>> should look like.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Earlier in this discussion, Dave came up with an interesting Google
>>>>>> search for an isolated logo icon to maybe be combined with a clean
>>>>>> brand
>>>>>> writing:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  https://www.google.com/search?q=3Dsteampunk+box+truss&safe=3Don&
>>>> espv=3D210&es_sm=3D91&source=3Dlnms&tbm=3Disch&sa=3DX&ei=3D
>>>> HjuCUq3NCYrnsATbvYLIBQ&ved=3D0CAkQ_AUoAQ&biw=3D1478&bih=3D1042#
>>>> es_sm=3D91&espv=3D210&q=3Dbox+truss&safe=3Doff&tbm=3Disch
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Those two for example could be excellent templates for an iconified
>>>>>> logo
>>>>>> graphic:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  http://www.google.com/imgres?safe=3Doff&es_sm=3D91&espv=3D210&
>>>> bih=3D1042&biw=3D1478&tbm=3Disch&tbnid=3DeQDpP6WpnMmoXM:&imgrefurl=3Dh=
ttp://www.
>>>> germanlightproducts.com/products/16-inch-square-box-truss-f44/&docid=
=3D
>>>> yGLxIpnpCserbM&imgurl=3Dhttp://www.germanlightproducts.com/
>>>> wp-content/uploads/2013/01/F44Box_0.jpg&w=3D1024&h=3D768&ei=3D
>>>> zPCRUtuZOYbjswaHzoCwCA&zoom=3D1&ved=3D1t:3588,r:73,s:0,i:305&
>>>> iact=3Drc&page=3D3&tbnh=3D176&tbnw=3D236&start=3D67&ndsp=3D35&tx=3D155=
&ty=3D76
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  http://www.google.com/imgres?safe=3Doff&es_sm=3D91&espv=3D210&
>>>> bih=3D1042&biw=3D1478&tbm=3Disch&tbnid=3DrGzeKbh__BY3LM:&imgrefurl=3Dh=
ttp://www.
>>>> brownswelding.com.au/truss500/&docid=3D-uk8Vty_qJyznM&imgurl=3D
>>>> http://www.brownswelding.com.au/truss500/images/500box6way.
>>>> jpg&w=3D200&h=3D200&ei=3DzPCRUtuZOYbjswaHzoCwCA&zoom=3D1&
>>>> ved=3D1t:3588,r:78,s:0,i:320&iact=3Drc&page=3D3&tbnh=3D160&tbnw=3D
>>>> 160&start=3D67&ndsp=3D35&tx=3D60&ty=3D50
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Also a very reduced and iconified bridge could be interesting for a
>>>>>> logo
>>>>>> icon.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I suck badly at crafting graphics, but if time permits I'll give it =
a
>>>>>> try to express my thoughts in some graphical draft. But basically my
>>>>>> overall thoughts go into a direction like the Typesafe or Hazelcast
>>>>>>
>>>>> logos.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>  As far as I understood it, this contribution is backed by Lukasz
>>>>>>> company. I am very grateful
>>>>>>> for the huge effort they already put into this.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> +1
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  Instead of discussing completely new approaches and ideas which mig=
ht
>>>>>>> lead to even more discussion,
>>>>>>> we all should answer these two question:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 1) Can you live with the proposal logo?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> just me: actually no, but it's a great start :)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  2) If yes, do you prefer the dark or the bright version?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> My answer to 1) is YES!!!!
>>>>>>> My answer to 2) I LOVE BOTH
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Cheers
>>>>>>> Christian
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Regards
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> =C5=81ukasz
>>>>>>>> + 48 606 323 122 http://www.lenart.org.pl/
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>> ---------
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@struts.apache.org
>>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@struts.apache.org
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ---
>>>>>>> http://www.grobmeier.de
>>>>>>> @grobmeier
>>>>>>> GPG: 0xA5CC90DB
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>> ---------
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@struts.apache.org
>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@struts.apache.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Ren=C3=A9 Gielen
>>>>>> http://twitter.com/rgielen
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------=
-
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@struts.apache.org
>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@struts.apache.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> =C5=81ukasz
>>>> + 48 606 323 122 http://www.lenart.org.pl/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>
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