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From Lukasz Lenart <lukaszlen...@apache.org>
Subject Re: New logo
Date Fri, 07 Mar 2014 14:53:39 GMT
New colors https://copy.com/mewPAFa0GuQo and designer's answer:

Several blue variants to be considered. As well as several fonts.

I do not agree about the font - I like it very much, it is modern -
not all serifs are outdated.

The font is called Aleo, you can read some here
http://fontfabric.com/aleo-free-font/

2014-03-07 15:29 GMT+01:00 Andrew Carr <andrewlanecarr@gmail.com>:
> I have a tattoo already.
>
>
> On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 6:49 AM, Matthew Panetta <matthew@panetta.id.au>wrote:
>
>>
>> On 7 Mar 2014, at 10:46 pm, Dave Newton <davelnewton@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > Honestly, if it comes down to it, I'm willing to throw some money at
>> > 99designs to get it done right.
>> >
>> > Another issue I had was the really thin whitespace lines in the logo;
>> that
>> > can make some printing a bit trickier.
>> >
>> > Because we all want t-shirts and tattoos, right?
>> >
>> > Right?
>> >
>> > Anyone?
>>
>> Sure, why not.
>>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 6:42 AM, info@flyingfischer.ch <
>> info@flyingfischer.ch
>> >> wrote:
>> >
>> >> Voltaire and Oswald seem to be condensed fonts, while Alegreya Sans SC
>> and
>> >> Alef and others aren't.
>> >>
>> >> I always feel typography is a very difficult job and needs to be seen in
>> >> the given case.
>> >>
>> >> Maybe the graphic guy could make some suggestions, choosing the
>> >> appropriate kind of font for the situation?
>> >>
>> >> Markus
>> >>
>> >> Am 07.03.2014 12:08, schrieb Matthew Panetta:
>> >>
>> >>> I like Roboto and Inconsolata.  Also found Voltaire and Oswald.
>> >>>
>> >>> https://www.google.com/fonts#ReviewPlace:refine/Collection:
>> >>> Alegreya+Sans+SC|Viga|Audiowide|Carrois+Gothic+SC|Alef|Roboto|Nobile|
>> >>> Inconsolata|Voltaire|Oswald<
>> https://www.google.com/fonts#ReviewPlace:refine/Collection:Alegreya+Sans+SC%7CViga%7CAudiowide%7CCarrois+Gothic+SC%7CAlef%7CRoboto%7CNobile%7CInconsolata%7CVoltaire%7COswald
>> >
>> >>>
>> >>> On 7 Mar 2014, at 6:05 pm, Lukasz Lenart <lukaszlenart@apache.org>
>> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> Maybe some of these
>> >>>>
>> >>>> https://www.google.com/fonts#ReviewPlace:refine/Collection:
>> >>>> Alegreya+Sans+SC|Flamenco|Cambo|Esteban|Audiowide|
>> >>>>
>> Carrois+Gothic+SC|Alef|Prosto+One|Varela+Round|Roboto|Nobile|Inconsolata<
>> https://www.google.com/fonts#ReviewPlace:refine/Collection:Alegreya+Sans+SC%7CFlamenco%7CCambo%7CEsteban%7CAudiowide%7CCarrois+Gothic+SC%7CAlef%7CProsto+One%7CVarela+Round%7CRoboto%7CNobile%7CInconsolata
>> >
>> >>>>
>> >>>> 2014-03-07 7:47 GMT+01:00 Matthew Panetta <matthew@panetta.id.au>:
>> >>>>
>> >>>>> My thoughts exactly. Needs a different font.
>> >>>>> On 07/03/2014 5:41 pm, "info@flyingfischer.ch" <
>> info@flyingfischer.ch>
>> >>>>> wrote:
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> The Logo looks nice. Has a slight reference to the art work
of M.C.
>> >>>>>> Escher. Great work.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Blue is always nice ;-)
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> The typography however gives the whole logo a not too modern
touch,
>> >>>>>> because it uses letters with serifs. I wonder if this will
match
>> nicely
>> >>>>>> with the serif free home page of struts 2?
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Best regards
>> >>>>>> Markus Fischer
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Am 07.03.2014 06:50, schrieb Lukasz Lenart:
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Link if attachment is missing
>> >>>>>>> https://copy.com/MXrnIYz8KajY
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> 2014-03-07 0:01 GMT+01:00 Chris Pratt <thechrispratt@gmail.com>:
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> I must have missed it, I don't see anything??
>> >>>>>>>>   (*Chris*)
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> On Thu, Mar 6, 2014 at 2:00 PM, Lukasz Lenart <
>> >>>>>>>> lukaszlenart@apache.org>
>> >>>>>>>> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> Work continues, 3rd version of logo, wdyt? I think
dark-blue
>> version
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> would be also nice.
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> 2013-11-26 8:59 GMT+01:00 Lukasz Lenart <lukaszlenart@apache.org
>> >:
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> I have passed your comment to designer - anyway
we have time and
>> we
>> >>>>>>>>>> can always start over when the first logo
won't be good enough
>> ;-)
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>> Reagrds
>> >>>>>>>>>> --
>> >>>>>>>>>> Łukasz
>> >>>>>>>>>> + 48 606 323 122 http://www.lenart.org.pl/
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>> 2013/11/24 Rene Gielen <rene.gielen@gmail.com>:
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>> Am 20.11.13 14:52, schrieb Christian Grobmeier:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>> On 12 Nov 2013, at 16:51, Lukasz Lenart
wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> 2013/11/12 Cameron Morris <cmorris@part.net>:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I love the look of steampunk
and rickety old bridges, but I
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> think
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> it
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> sends
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the wrong message for a
project fighting the perception of
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> being
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> old
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> legacy.  I'd say the more modern looking the
better.  However,
>> some
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>> of the
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> more modern bridges look
so space age it might be hard to
>> tell
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> that
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> they
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> are bridges if they are made into a small icon.
 Perhaps some of
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> these
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> might spark an idea: http://www.flickr.com/search/?
>> >>>>>>>>>> q=modern%20bridge
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Hmm... you know everything new
someday will be old anyway ;-)
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> rather say let's focus on having
cool logo and not the
>> message
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> it
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> sends ;-)
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> +1 on the cool logo NOW instead
of wasting more time.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Its always funny with us devs. We
have a crap logo for years.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Somebody shows up and contributes
a fantastic logo (compared
>> to
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> the
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> other one).
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Suddenly all devs become designers
and social media
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> communicators.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>> You are right with our out-of-style
old logo, and that things
>> >>>>>>>>>>> should
>> >>>>>>>>>>> change here. But why exactly are we
in such a hurry? Going too
>> >>>>>>>>>>> long
>> >>>>>>>>>>> with
>> >>>>>>>>>>> an old logo does not mean that a new
logo should replace the
>> old
>> >>>>>>>>>>> one
>> >>>>>>>>>>> as
>> >>>>>>>>>>> soon as it is just "better". IMHO we
would want to replace it
>> with
>> >>>>>>>>>>> something that satisfies us for years.
It should be cool and
>> >>>>>>>>>>> catchy
>> >>>>>>>>>>> now
>> >>>>>>>>>>> and in five years. "Fantastic compared
to the other one" is IMO
>> >>>>>>>>>>> not
>> >>>>>>>>>>> enough. Do we want old-time users to
be surprised to find
>> better
>> >>>>>>>>>>> logo
>> >>>>>>>>>>> now, or do we want anyone stumbling
over our site or a
>> >>>>>>>>>>> Zeroturnaround
>> >>>>>>>>>>> web frameworks survey to think "hey
man, nice logo!"?
>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>> I'm not a social media designer, and
for that reason I need to
>> >>>>>>>>>>> interact
>> >>>>>>>>>>> with a designer. I need inspiration
and suggestions to
>> formulate
>> >>>>>>>>>>> in
>> >>>>>>>>>>> turn
>> >>>>>>>>>>> which directions to go for the next
iteration. Since I'm not a
>> >>>>>>>>>>> designer,
>> >>>>>>>>>>> I'm for sure too lame with my own cool
logo proposal.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>> Over all the years I was involved with
design tasks, I've seen
>> >>>>>>>>>>> design
>> >>>>>>>>>>> emerge after some iterations in a process
similar to what I
>> >>>>>>>>>>> outlined
>> >>>>>>>>>>> above. I have never ever experienced
being given a first
>> proposal
>> >>>>>>>>>>> that
>> >>>>>>>>>>> makes it directly to production.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>> Personally I am super-happy that we
have such a great proposal.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> And if we don't have another option
(one of us devs IS a
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> designer AND
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> does some work)
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> we should definitely consider it.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I'm super happy with the work being
done, and I like some of
>> >>>>>>>>>>> the ideas
>> >>>>>>>>>>> incorporated in the first proposals.
I like the fact that
>> someone
>> >>>>>>>>>>> steps
>> >>>>>>>>>>> up and is kind enough to donate work
and creativity, and I am
>> >>>>>>>>>>> super
>> >>>>>>>>>>> thankful for that - and, to be honest,
it makes me bit shy to
>> >>>>>>>>>>> provide
>> >>>>>>>>>>> too much criticism, especially since
it is not my profession
>> the
>> >>>>>>>>>>> actual
>> >>>>>>>>>>> work is all about.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>> I went back and forth many times the
last two weeks to think
>> and
>> >>>>>>>>>>> re-think if I like the logo, how it
might be seen, and what
>> well
>> >>>>>>>>>>> founded
>> >>>>>>>>>>> criticism I could give. In my review
I tried to both
>> incorporate
>> >>>>>>>>>>> what
>> >>>>>>>>>>> I
>> >>>>>>>>>>> as a non-professional know about design,
as well as what I as a
>> >>>>>>>>>>> "professional design recipient" (read:
consumer) feel when I
>> see
>> >>>>>>>>>>> the
>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>> logo.
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>> Some of my thoughts:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>> Most common to me seems a combination
of a dedicated logo icon
>> >>>>>>>>>>> with a
>> >>>>>>>>>>> clean writing for the brand, or just
an elaborate writing
>> without
>> >>>>>>>>>>> logo
>> >>>>>>>>>>> icon. From time to time you see some
font gimmickry to make a
>> pure
>> >>>>>>>>>>> writing recognizable. But I have failed
so far to come up with
>> a
>> >>>>>>>>>>> example
>> >>>>>>>>>>> for a iconified design building a writing
and a font design.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>> Have a look at those two sites (scroll
to bottom on both)
>> >>>>>>>>>>> http://devoxx.be/#/sponsors
>> >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.gopivotal.com/
>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>> There a good bunch of logos, both of
companies and open source
>> >>>>>>>>>>> projects,
>> >>>>>>>>>>> that look cool, clean and modern, yet
timeless.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>> If you want to follow newest hipster
logo trends,
>> >>>>>>>>>>> http://gruntjs.com/
>> >>>>>>>>>>> might be a source for inspiration. Nevertheless,
this seems to
>> be
>> >>>>>>>>>>> not
>> >>>>>>>>>>> so
>> >>>>>>>>>>> much on the timeless side...
>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>> That said and reviewed many times during
last week, I'm more in
>> >>>>>>>>>>> favor
>> >>>>>>>>>>> for the combination of an icon symbol
combined with with a
>> clean
>> >>>>>>>>>>> and
>> >>>>>>>>>>> modern typographic font for the brand
name Struts.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>> Stepping back a bit when viewing the
proposed designs, what
>> >>>>>>>>>>> strikes me
>> >>>>>>>>>>> most is that iconified graphic elements
are used to construct a
>> >>>>>>>>>>> font.
>> >>>>>>>>>>> How does this font look like? It does
not seem to follow all of
>> >>>>>>>>>>> the
>> >>>>>>>>>>> well
>> >>>>>>>>>>> established rules for font design. If
you color it completely
>> >>>>>>>>>>> black
>> >>>>>>>>>>> from
>> >>>>>>>>>>> the outline and reduce it to the font
shape, it does not look
>> like
>> >>>>>>>>>>> very
>> >>>>>>>>>>> "clean" typography, even a bit clunky.
But besides (or even
>> more
>> >>>>>>>>>>> than?)
>> >>>>>>>>>>> graphical details and tasteful colouring,
the shape makes the
>> >>>>>>>>>>> first
>> >>>>>>>>>>> impression to a viewer. I doubt that
it is a good idea to bind
>> the
>> >>>>>>>>>>> font
>> >>>>>>>>>>> shape of a writing to iconified graphics
as building blocks, as
>> >>>>>>>>>>> this
>> >>>>>>>>>>> limits how elaborate the typographic
shape itself will look
>> like.
>> >>>>>>>>>>> Designing a font is a science by itself,
you can find tons of
>> >>>>>>>>>>> information on the web. Just for some
reading giving an
>> >>>>>>>>>>> impression:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>> http://designshack.net/articles/typography/8-rules-
>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>> for-creating-effective-typography/
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>> As for me, this breaks down to: I have tried
to like it, but -
>> as
>> >>>>>>>>>>> proposed so far - I don't. This is my
honest personal view.
>> And I
>> >>>>>>>>>>> also
>> >>>>>>>>>>> think it is a great starting point to
go into design
>> iteration. It
>> >>>>>>>>>>> teases me to think, it gives the inspiration
someone like me
>> >>>>>>>>>>> needs to
>> >>>>>>>>>>> imagine and maybe phrase what he thinks
the final logo (or a
>> next
>> >>>>>>>>>>> step)
>> >>>>>>>>>>> should look like.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>> Earlier in this discussion, Dave came
up with an interesting
>> >>>>>>>>>>> Google
>> >>>>>>>>>>> search for an isolated logo icon to
maybe be combined with a
>> clean
>> >>>>>>>>>>> brand
>> >>>>>>>>>>> writing:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>> https://www.google.com/search?q=steampunk+box+truss&safe=on&
>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>> espv=210&es_sm=91&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=
>> >>>>>>>>> HjuCUq3NCYrnsATbvYLIBQ&ved=0CAkQ_AUoAQ&biw=1478&bih=1042#
>> >>>>>>>>> es_sm=91&espv=210&q=box+truss&safe=off&tbm=isch
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>> Those two for example could be excellent
templates for an
>> >>>>>>>>>>> iconified
>> >>>>>>>>>>> logo
>> >>>>>>>>>>> graphic:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.google.com/imgres?safe=off&es_sm=91&espv=210&
>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>> bih=1042&biw=1478&tbm=isch&tbnid=eQDpP6WpnMmoXM:&imgrefurl=
>> >>>>>>>>> http://www.
>> >>>>>>>>> germanlightproducts.com/products/16-inch-square-box-
>> >>>>>>>>> truss-f44/&docid=
>> >>>>>>>>> yGLxIpnpCserbM&imgurl=http://www.germanlightproducts.com/
>> >>>>>>>>> wp-content/uploads/2013/01/F44Box_0.jpg&w=1024&h=768&ei=
>> >>>>>>>>> zPCRUtuZOYbjswaHzoCwCA&zoom=1&ved=1t:3588,r:73,s:0,i:305&
>> >>>>>>>>> iact=rc&page=3&tbnh=176&tbnw=236&start=67&ndsp=35&tx=155&ty=76
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.google.com/imgres?safe=off&es_sm=91&espv=210&
>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>> bih=1042&biw=1478&tbm=isch&tbnid=rGzeKbh__BY3LM:&imgrefurl=
>> >>>>>>>>> http://www.
>> >>>>>>>>> brownswelding.com.au/truss500/&docid=-uk8Vty_qJyznM&imgurl=
>> >>>>>>>>> http://www.brownswelding.com.au/truss500/images/500box6way.
>> >>>>>>>>> jpg&w=200&h=200&ei=zPCRUtuZOYbjswaHzoCwCA&zoom=1&
>> >>>>>>>>> ved=1t:3588,r:78,s:0,i:320&iact=rc&page=3&tbnh=160&tbnw=
>> >>>>>>>>> 160&start=67&ndsp=35&tx=60&ty=50
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>> Also a very reduced and iconified bridge
could be interesting
>> for
>> >>>>>>>>>>> a
>> >>>>>>>>>>> logo
>> >>>>>>>>>>> icon.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>> I suck badly at crafting graphics, but
if time permits I'll
>> give
>> >>>>>>>>>>> it a
>> >>>>>>>>>>> try to express my thoughts in some graphical
draft. But
>> basically
>> >>>>>>>>>>> my
>> >>>>>>>>>>> overall thoughts go into a direction
like the Typesafe or
>> >>>>>>>>>>> Hazelcast
>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>> logos.
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>> As far as I understood it, this contribution
is backed by Lukasz
>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> company. I am very grateful
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> for the huge effort they already
put into this.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> +1
>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>> Instead of discussing completely new
approaches and ideas which
>> >>>>>>>>>>> might
>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> lead to even more discussion,
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> we all should answer these two question:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> 1) Can you live with the proposal
logo?
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>> just me: actually no, but it's a great
start :)
>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>> 2) If yes, do you prefer the dark or
the bright version?
>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> My answer to 1) is YES!!!!
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> My answer to 2) I LOVE BOTH
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Christian
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Regards
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Łukasz
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> + 48 606 323 122 http://www.lenart.org.pl/
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> ---------
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@struts.apache.org
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail:
dev-help@struts.apache.org
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> ---
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.grobmeier.de
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> @grobmeier
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> GPG: 0xA5CC90DB
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> ---------
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@struts.apache.org
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail:
dev-help@struts.apache.org
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>> --
>> >>>>>>>>>>> René Gielen
>> >>>>>>>>>>> http://twitter.com/rgielen
>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>> >>>>>>>>>>> ---------
>> >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@struts.apache.org
>> >>>>>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@struts.apache.org
>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> --
>> >>>>>>>>> Łukasz
>> >>>>>>>>> + 48 606 323 122 http://www.lenart.org.pl/
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>> >>>>>>>>> ---------
>> >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@struts.apache.org
>> >>>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@struts.apache.org
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>> >>>>>>> ---------
>> >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@struts.apache.org
>> >>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@struts.apache.org
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>> >>>>>> ---------
>> >>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@struts.apache.org
>> >>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@struts.apache.org
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> --
>> >>>> Łukasz
>> >>>> + 48 606 323 122 http://www.lenart.org.pl/
>> >>>>
>> >>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@struts.apache.org
>> >>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@struts.apache.org
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>
>> >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@struts.apache.org
>> >>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@struts.apache.org
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@struts.apache.org
>> >> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@struts.apache.org
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > e: davelnewton@gmail.com
>> > m: 908-380-8699
>> > s: davelnewton_skype
>> > t: @dave_newton <https://twitter.com/dave_newton>
>> > b: Bucky Bits <http://buckybits.blogspot.com/>
>> > g: davelnewton <https://github.com/davelnewton>
>> > so: Dave Newton <http://stackoverflow.com/users/438992/dave-newton>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> With Regards,
> Andrew Carr
>
> e. andrewlanecarr@gmail.com
> w. andrew.carr@openlogic.com
> h. 4235255668
> c. 4239489852
> a. 101 Francis Drive, Greeneville, TN, 37743

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