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From Andrew Carr <andrewlanec...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: New logo
Date Fri, 07 Mar 2014 14:29:41 GMT
I have a tattoo already.


On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 6:49 AM, Matthew Panetta <matthew@panetta.id.au>wrote:

>
> On 7 Mar 2014, at 10:46 pm, Dave Newton <davelnewton@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Honestly, if it comes down to it, I'm willing to throw some money at
> > 99designs to get it done right.
> >
> > Another issue I had was the really thin whitespace lines in the logo;
> that
> > can make some printing a bit trickier.
> >
> > Because we all want t-shirts and tattoos, right?
> >
> > Right?
> >
> > Anyone?
>
> Sure, why not.
>
> >
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 6:42 AM, info@flyingfischer.ch <
> info@flyingfischer.ch
> >> wrote:
> >
> >> Voltaire and Oswald seem to be condensed fonts, while Alegreya Sans SC
> and
> >> Alef and others aren't.
> >>
> >> I always feel typography is a very difficult job and needs to be seen in
> >> the given case.
> >>
> >> Maybe the graphic guy could make some suggestions, choosing the
> >> appropriate kind of font for the situation?
> >>
> >> Markus
> >>
> >> Am 07.03.2014 12:08, schrieb Matthew Panetta:
> >>
> >>> I like Roboto and Inconsolata.  Also found Voltaire and Oswald.
> >>>
> >>> https://www.google.com/fonts#ReviewPlace:refine/Collection:
> >>> Alegreya+Sans+SC|Viga|Audiowide|Carrois+Gothic+SC|Alef|Roboto|Nobile|
> >>> Inconsolata|Voltaire|Oswald<
> https://www.google.com/fonts#ReviewPlace:refine/Collection:Alegreya+Sans+SC%7CViga%7CAudiowide%7CCarrois+Gothic+SC%7CAlef%7CRoboto%7CNobile%7CInconsolata%7CVoltaire%7COswald
> >
> >>>
> >>> On 7 Mar 2014, at 6:05 pm, Lukasz Lenart <lukaszlenart@apache.org>
> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Maybe some of these
> >>>>
> >>>> https://www.google.com/fonts#ReviewPlace:refine/Collection:
> >>>> Alegreya+Sans+SC|Flamenco|Cambo|Esteban|Audiowide|
> >>>>
> Carrois+Gothic+SC|Alef|Prosto+One|Varela+Round|Roboto|Nobile|Inconsolata<
> https://www.google.com/fonts#ReviewPlace:refine/Collection:Alegreya+Sans+SC%7CFlamenco%7CCambo%7CEsteban%7CAudiowide%7CCarrois+Gothic+SC%7CAlef%7CProsto+One%7CVarela+Round%7CRoboto%7CNobile%7CInconsolata
> >
> >>>>
> >>>> 2014-03-07 7:47 GMT+01:00 Matthew Panetta <matthew@panetta.id.au>:
> >>>>
> >>>>> My thoughts exactly. Needs a different font.
> >>>>> On 07/03/2014 5:41 pm, "info@flyingfischer.ch" <
> info@flyingfischer.ch>
> >>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The Logo looks nice. Has a slight reference to the art work of M.C.
> >>>>>> Escher. Great work.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Blue is always nice ;-)
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> The typography however gives the whole logo a not too modern
touch,
> >>>>>> because it uses letters with serifs. I wonder if this will match
> nicely
> >>>>>> with the serif free home page of struts 2?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Best regards
> >>>>>> Markus Fischer
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Am 07.03.2014 06:50, schrieb Lukasz Lenart:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Link if attachment is missing
> >>>>>>> https://copy.com/MXrnIYz8KajY
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> 2014-03-07 0:01 GMT+01:00 Chris Pratt <thechrispratt@gmail.com>:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I must have missed it, I don't see anything??
> >>>>>>>>   (*Chris*)
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> On Thu, Mar 6, 2014 at 2:00 PM, Lukasz Lenart <
> >>>>>>>> lukaszlenart@apache.org>
> >>>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Work continues, 3rd version of logo, wdyt? I think dark-blue
> version
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> would be also nice.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> 2013-11-26 8:59 GMT+01:00 Lukasz Lenart <lukaszlenart@apache.org
> >:
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> I have passed your comment to designer - anyway
we have time and
> we
> >>>>>>>>>> can always start over when the first logo won't
be good enough
> ;-)
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Reagrds
> >>>>>>>>>> --
> >>>>>>>>>> Łukasz
> >>>>>>>>>> + 48 606 323 122 http://www.lenart.org.pl/
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> 2013/11/24 Rene Gielen <rene.gielen@gmail.com>:
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Am 20.11.13 14:52, schrieb Christian Grobmeier:
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> On 12 Nov 2013, at 16:51, Lukasz Lenart
wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> 2013/11/12 Cameron Morris <cmorris@part.net>:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I love the look of steampunk and
rickety old bridges, but I
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> think
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> it
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> sends
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the wrong message for a project
fighting the perception of
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> being
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> old
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> legacy.  I'd say the more modern looking the better.
 However,
> some
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> of the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> more modern bridges look so
space age it might be hard to
> tell
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> that
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> they
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> are bridges if they are made into a small icon.
 Perhaps some of
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> these
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> might spark an idea: http://www.flickr.com/search/?
> >>>>>>>>>> q=modern%20bridge
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Hmm... you know everything new someday
will be old anyway ;-)
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> rather say let's focus on having
cool logo and not the
> message
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> it
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> sends ;-)
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> +1 on the cool logo NOW instead of wasting
more time.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Its always funny with us devs. We have
a crap logo for years.
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Somebody shows up and contributes a
fantastic logo (compared
> to
> >>>>>>>>>>>> the
> >>>>>>>>>>>> other one).
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Suddenly all devs become designers and
social media
> >>>>>>>>>>>> communicators.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> You are right with our out-of-style old
logo, and that things
> >>>>>>>>>>> should
> >>>>>>>>>>> change here. But why exactly are we in such
a hurry? Going too
> >>>>>>>>>>> long
> >>>>>>>>>>> with
> >>>>>>>>>>> an old logo does not mean that a new logo
should replace the
> old
> >>>>>>>>>>> one
> >>>>>>>>>>> as
> >>>>>>>>>>> soon as it is just "better". IMHO we would
want to replace it
> with
> >>>>>>>>>>> something that satisfies us for years. It
should be cool and
> >>>>>>>>>>> catchy
> >>>>>>>>>>> now
> >>>>>>>>>>> and in five years. "Fantastic compared to
the other one" is IMO
> >>>>>>>>>>> not
> >>>>>>>>>>> enough. Do we want old-time users to be
surprised to find
> better
> >>>>>>>>>>> logo
> >>>>>>>>>>> now, or do we want anyone stumbling over
our site or a
> >>>>>>>>>>> Zeroturnaround
> >>>>>>>>>>> web frameworks survey to think "hey man,
nice logo!"?
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> I'm not a social media designer, and for
that reason I need to
> >>>>>>>>>>> interact
> >>>>>>>>>>> with a designer. I need inspiration and
suggestions to
> formulate
> >>>>>>>>>>> in
> >>>>>>>>>>> turn
> >>>>>>>>>>> which directions to go for the next iteration.
Since I'm not a
> >>>>>>>>>>> designer,
> >>>>>>>>>>> I'm for sure too lame with my own cool logo
proposal.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Over all the years I was involved with design
tasks, I've seen
> >>>>>>>>>>> design
> >>>>>>>>>>> emerge after some iterations in a process
similar to what I
> >>>>>>>>>>> outlined
> >>>>>>>>>>> above. I have never ever experienced being
given a first
> proposal
> >>>>>>>>>>> that
> >>>>>>>>>>> makes it directly to production.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Personally I am super-happy that we have
such a great proposal.
> >>>>>>>>>>>> And if we don't have another option
(one of us devs IS a
> >>>>>>>>>>>> designer AND
> >>>>>>>>>>>> does some work)
> >>>>>>>>>>>> we should definitely consider it.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> I'm super happy with the work being
done, and I like some of
> >>>>>>>>>>> the ideas
> >>>>>>>>>>> incorporated in the first proposals. I like
the fact that
> someone
> >>>>>>>>>>> steps
> >>>>>>>>>>> up and is kind enough to donate work and
creativity, and I am
> >>>>>>>>>>> super
> >>>>>>>>>>> thankful for that - and, to be honest, it
makes me bit shy to
> >>>>>>>>>>> provide
> >>>>>>>>>>> too much criticism, especially since it
is not my profession
> the
> >>>>>>>>>>> actual
> >>>>>>>>>>> work is all about.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> I went back and forth many times the last
two weeks to think
> and
> >>>>>>>>>>> re-think if I like the logo, how it might
be seen, and what
> well
> >>>>>>>>>>> founded
> >>>>>>>>>>> criticism I could give. In my review I tried
to both
> incorporate
> >>>>>>>>>>> what
> >>>>>>>>>>> I
> >>>>>>>>>>> as a non-professional know about design,
as well as what I as a
> >>>>>>>>>>> "professional design recipient" (read: consumer)
feel when I
> see
> >>>>>>>>>>> the
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> logo.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Some of my thoughts:
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Most common to me seems a combination of
a dedicated logo icon
> >>>>>>>>>>> with a
> >>>>>>>>>>> clean writing for the brand, or just an
elaborate writing
> without
> >>>>>>>>>>> logo
> >>>>>>>>>>> icon. From time to time you see some font
gimmickry to make a
> pure
> >>>>>>>>>>> writing recognizable. But I have failed
so far to come up with
> a
> >>>>>>>>>>> example
> >>>>>>>>>>> for a iconified design building a writing
and a font design.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Have a look at those two sites (scroll to
bottom on both)
> >>>>>>>>>>> http://devoxx.be/#/sponsors
> >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.gopivotal.com/
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> There a good bunch of logos, both of companies
and open source
> >>>>>>>>>>> projects,
> >>>>>>>>>>> that look cool, clean and modern, yet timeless.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> If you want to follow newest hipster logo
trends,
> >>>>>>>>>>> http://gruntjs.com/
> >>>>>>>>>>> might be a source for inspiration. Nevertheless,
this seems to
> be
> >>>>>>>>>>> not
> >>>>>>>>>>> so
> >>>>>>>>>>> much on the timeless side...
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> That said and reviewed many times during
last week, I'm more in
> >>>>>>>>>>> favor
> >>>>>>>>>>> for the combination of an icon symbol combined
with with a
> clean
> >>>>>>>>>>> and
> >>>>>>>>>>> modern typographic font for the brand name
Struts.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Stepping back a bit when viewing the proposed
designs, what
> >>>>>>>>>>> strikes me
> >>>>>>>>>>> most is that iconified graphic elements
are used to construct a
> >>>>>>>>>>> font.
> >>>>>>>>>>> How does this font look like? It does not
seem to follow all of
> >>>>>>>>>>> the
> >>>>>>>>>>> well
> >>>>>>>>>>> established rules for font design. If you
color it completely
> >>>>>>>>>>> black
> >>>>>>>>>>> from
> >>>>>>>>>>> the outline and reduce it to the font shape,
it does not look
> like
> >>>>>>>>>>> very
> >>>>>>>>>>> "clean" typography, even a bit clunky. But
besides (or even
> more
> >>>>>>>>>>> than?)
> >>>>>>>>>>> graphical details and tasteful colouring,
the shape makes the
> >>>>>>>>>>> first
> >>>>>>>>>>> impression to a viewer. I doubt that it
is a good idea to bind
> the
> >>>>>>>>>>> font
> >>>>>>>>>>> shape of a writing to iconified graphics
as building blocks, as
> >>>>>>>>>>> this
> >>>>>>>>>>> limits how elaborate the typographic shape
itself will look
> like.
> >>>>>>>>>>> Designing a font is a science by itself,
you can find tons of
> >>>>>>>>>>> information on the web. Just for some reading
giving an
> >>>>>>>>>>> impression:
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> http://designshack.net/articles/typography/8-rules-
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> for-creating-effective-typography/
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> As for me, this breaks down to: I have tried
to like it, but -
> as
> >>>>>>>>>>> proposed so far - I don't. This is my honest
personal view.
> And I
> >>>>>>>>>>> also
> >>>>>>>>>>> think it is a great starting point to go
into design
> iteration. It
> >>>>>>>>>>> teases me to think, it gives the inspiration
someone like me
> >>>>>>>>>>> needs to
> >>>>>>>>>>> imagine and maybe phrase what he thinks
the final logo (or a
> next
> >>>>>>>>>>> step)
> >>>>>>>>>>> should look like.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Earlier in this discussion, Dave came up
with an interesting
> >>>>>>>>>>> Google
> >>>>>>>>>>> search for an isolated logo icon to maybe
be combined with a
> clean
> >>>>>>>>>>> brand
> >>>>>>>>>>> writing:
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> https://www.google.com/search?q=steampunk+box+truss&safe=on&
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> espv=210&es_sm=91&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=
> >>>>>>>>> HjuCUq3NCYrnsATbvYLIBQ&ved=0CAkQ_AUoAQ&biw=1478&bih=1042#
> >>>>>>>>> es_sm=91&espv=210&q=box+truss&safe=off&tbm=isch
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Those two for example could be excellent templates
for an
> >>>>>>>>>>> iconified
> >>>>>>>>>>> logo
> >>>>>>>>>>> graphic:
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.google.com/imgres?safe=off&es_sm=91&espv=210&
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> bih=1042&biw=1478&tbm=isch&tbnid=eQDpP6WpnMmoXM:&imgrefurl=
> >>>>>>>>> http://www.
> >>>>>>>>> germanlightproducts.com/products/16-inch-square-box-
> >>>>>>>>> truss-f44/&docid=
> >>>>>>>>> yGLxIpnpCserbM&imgurl=http://www.germanlightproducts.com/
> >>>>>>>>> wp-content/uploads/2013/01/F44Box_0.jpg&w=1024&h=768&ei=
> >>>>>>>>> zPCRUtuZOYbjswaHzoCwCA&zoom=1&ved=1t:3588,r:73,s:0,i:305&
> >>>>>>>>> iact=rc&page=3&tbnh=176&tbnw=236&start=67&ndsp=35&tx=155&ty=76
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.google.com/imgres?safe=off&es_sm=91&espv=210&
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> bih=1042&biw=1478&tbm=isch&tbnid=rGzeKbh__BY3LM:&imgrefurl=
> >>>>>>>>> http://www.
> >>>>>>>>> brownswelding.com.au/truss500/&docid=-uk8Vty_qJyznM&imgurl=
> >>>>>>>>> http://www.brownswelding.com.au/truss500/images/500box6way.
> >>>>>>>>> jpg&w=200&h=200&ei=zPCRUtuZOYbjswaHzoCwCA&zoom=1&
> >>>>>>>>> ved=1t:3588,r:78,s:0,i:320&iact=rc&page=3&tbnh=160&tbnw=
> >>>>>>>>> 160&start=67&ndsp=35&tx=60&ty=50
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Also a very reduced and iconified bridge could
be interesting
> for
> >>>>>>>>>>> a
> >>>>>>>>>>> logo
> >>>>>>>>>>> icon.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> I suck badly at crafting graphics, but if
time permits I'll
> give
> >>>>>>>>>>> it a
> >>>>>>>>>>> try to express my thoughts in some graphical
draft. But
> basically
> >>>>>>>>>>> my
> >>>>>>>>>>> overall thoughts go into a direction like
the Typesafe or
> >>>>>>>>>>> Hazelcast
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> logos.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> As far as I understood it, this contribution
is backed by Lukasz
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> company. I am very grateful
> >>>>>>>>>>>> for the huge effort they already put
into this.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> +1
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Instead of discussing completely new approaches
and ideas which
> >>>>>>>>>>> might
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> lead to even more discussion,
> >>>>>>>>>>>> we all should answer these two question:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> 1) Can you live with the proposal logo?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> just me: actually no, but it's a great start
:)
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> 2) If yes, do you prefer the dark or the
bright version?
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> My answer to 1) is YES!!!!
> >>>>>>>>>>>> My answer to 2) I LOVE BOTH
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Christian
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Regards
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> --
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Łukasz
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> + 48 606 323 122 http://www.lenart.org.pl/
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> ---------
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@struts.apache.org
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail:
dev-help@struts.apache.org
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> ---
> >>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.grobmeier.de
> >>>>>>>>>>>> @grobmeier
> >>>>>>>>>>>> GPG: 0xA5CC90DB
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>>>>>>>>> ---------
> >>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@struts.apache.org
> >>>>>>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@struts.apache.org
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> --
> >>>>>>>>>>> René Gielen
> >>>>>>>>>>> http://twitter.com/rgielen
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>>>>>>>> ---------
> >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@struts.apache.org
> >>>>>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@struts.apache.org
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> --
> >>>>>>>>> Łukasz
> >>>>>>>>> + 48 606 323 122 http://www.lenart.org.pl/
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>>>>>> ---------
> >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@struts.apache.org
> >>>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@struts.apache.org
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>>>> ---------
> >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@struts.apache.org
> >>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@struts.apache.org
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>>> ---------
> >>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@struts.apache.org
> >>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@struts.apache.org
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> --
> >>>> Łukasz
> >>>> + 48 606 323 122 http://www.lenart.org.pl/
> >>>>
> >>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@struts.apache.org
> >>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@struts.apache.org
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@struts.apache.org
> >>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@struts.apache.org
> >>>
> >>>
> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@struts.apache.org
> >> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@struts.apache.org
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> > --
> > e: davelnewton@gmail.com
> > m: 908-380-8699
> > s: davelnewton_skype
> > t: @dave_newton <https://twitter.com/dave_newton>
> > b: Bucky Bits <http://buckybits.blogspot.com/>
> > g: davelnewton <https://github.com/davelnewton>
> > so: Dave Newton <http://stackoverflow.com/users/438992/dave-newton>
>
>


-- 
With Regards,
Andrew Carr

e. andrewlanecarr@gmail.com
w. andrew.carr@openlogic.com
h. 4235255668
c. 4239489852
a. 101 Francis Drive, Greeneville, TN, 37743

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