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From Dave Newton <davelnew...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: New logo
Date Fri, 07 Mar 2014 11:46:03 GMT
Honestly, if it comes down to it, I'm willing to throw some money at
99designs to get it done right.

Another issue I had was the really thin whitespace lines in the logo; that
can make some printing a bit trickier.

Because we all want t-shirts and tattoos, right?

Right?

Anyone?



On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 6:42 AM, info@flyingfischer.ch <info@flyingfischer.ch
> wrote:

> Voltaire and Oswald seem to be condensed fonts, while Alegreya Sans SC and
> Alef and others aren't.
>
> I always feel typography is a very difficult job and needs to be seen in
> the given case.
>
> Maybe the graphic guy could make some suggestions, choosing the
> appropriate kind of font for the situation?
>
> Markus
>
> Am 07.03.2014 12:08, schrieb Matthew Panetta:
>
>> I like Roboto and Inconsolata.  Also found Voltaire and Oswald.
>>
>> https://www.google.com/fonts#ReviewPlace:refine/Collection:
>> Alegreya+Sans+SC|Viga|Audiowide|Carrois+Gothic+SC|Alef|Roboto|Nobile|
>> Inconsolata|Voltaire|Oswald<https://www.google.com/fonts#ReviewPlace:refine/Collection:Alegreya+Sans+SC%7CViga%7CAudiowide%7CCarrois+Gothic+SC%7CAlef%7CRoboto%7CNobile%7CInconsolata%7CVoltaire%7COswald>
>>
>> On 7 Mar 2014, at 6:05 pm, Lukasz Lenart <lukaszlenart@apache.org> wrote:
>>
>>  Maybe some of these
>>>
>>> https://www.google.com/fonts#ReviewPlace:refine/Collection:
>>> Alegreya+Sans+SC|Flamenco|Cambo|Esteban|Audiowide|
>>> Carrois+Gothic+SC|Alef|Prosto+One|Varela+Round|Roboto|Nobile|Inconsolata<https://www.google.com/fonts#ReviewPlace:refine/Collection:Alegreya+Sans+SC%7CFlamenco%7CCambo%7CEsteban%7CAudiowide%7CCarrois+Gothic+SC%7CAlef%7CProsto+One%7CVarela+Round%7CRoboto%7CNobile%7CInconsolata>
>>>
>>> 2014-03-07 7:47 GMT+01:00 Matthew Panetta <matthew@panetta.id.au>:
>>>
>>>> My thoughts exactly. Needs a different font.
>>>> On 07/03/2014 5:41 pm, "info@flyingfischer.ch" <info@flyingfischer.ch>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>  The Logo looks nice. Has a slight reference to the art work of M.C.
>>>>> Escher. Great work.
>>>>>
>>>>> Blue is always nice ;-)
>>>>>
>>>>> The typography however gives the whole logo a not too modern touch,
>>>>> because it uses letters with serifs. I wonder if this will match nicely
>>>>> with the serif free home page of struts 2?
>>>>>
>>>>> Best regards
>>>>> Markus Fischer
>>>>>
>>>>> Am 07.03.2014 06:50, schrieb Lukasz Lenart:
>>>>>
>>>>>  Link if attachment is missing
>>>>>> https://copy.com/MXrnIYz8KajY
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2014-03-07 0:01 GMT+01:00 Chris Pratt <thechrispratt@gmail.com>:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  I must have missed it, I don't see anything??
>>>>>>>    (*Chris*)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Thu, Mar 6, 2014 at 2:00 PM, Lukasz Lenart <
>>>>>>> lukaszlenart@apache.org>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Work continues, 3rd version of logo, wdyt? I think dark-blue
version
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> would be also nice.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 2013-11-26 8:59 GMT+01:00 Lukasz Lenart <lukaszlenart@apache.org>:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>  I have passed your comment to designer - anyway we have
time and we
>>>>>>>>> can always start over when the first logo won't be good
enough ;-)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Reagrds
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> Łukasz
>>>>>>>>> + 48 606 323 122 http://www.lenart.org.pl/
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 2013/11/24 Rene Gielen <rene.gielen@gmail.com>:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>  Am 20.11.13 14:52, schrieb Christian Grobmeier:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>  On 12 Nov 2013, at 16:51, Lukasz Lenart wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> 2013/11/12 Cameron Morris <cmorris@part.net>:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>  I love the look of steampunk and rickety
old bridges, but I
>>>>>>>>>>>>> think
>>>>>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>>>>> sends
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the wrong message for a project fighting
the perception of
>>>>>>>>>>>>> being
>>>>>>>>>>>>> old
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>  and
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>  legacy.  I'd say the more modern looking the better.  However,
some
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> of the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> more modern bridges look so space age
it might be hard to tell
>>>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>  they
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>  are bridges if they are made into a small icon.  Perhaps
some of
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>  these
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>  might spark an idea: http://www.flickr.com/search/?
>>>>>>>>> q=modern%20bridge
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Hmm... you know everything new someday will
be old anyway ;-)
>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd
>>>>>>>>>>>> rather say let's focus on having cool logo
and not the message
>>>>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>>>> sends ;-)
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> +1 on the cool logo NOW instead of wasting more
time.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Its always funny with us devs. We have a crap
logo for years.
>>>>>>>>>>> Somebody shows up and contributes a fantastic
logo (compared to
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> other one).
>>>>>>>>>>> Suddenly all devs become designers and social
media
>>>>>>>>>>> communicators.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> You are right with our out-of-style old logo, and
that things
>>>>>>>>>> should
>>>>>>>>>> change here. But why exactly are we in such a hurry?
Going too
>>>>>>>>>> long
>>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>> an old logo does not mean that a new logo should
replace the old
>>>>>>>>>> one
>>>>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>>>> soon as it is just "better". IMHO we would want to
replace it with
>>>>>>>>>> something that satisfies us for years. It should
be cool and
>>>>>>>>>> catchy
>>>>>>>>>> now
>>>>>>>>>> and in five years. "Fantastic compared to the other
one" is IMO
>>>>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>>>>> enough. Do we want old-time users to be surprised
to find better
>>>>>>>>>> logo
>>>>>>>>>> now, or do we want anyone stumbling over our site
or a
>>>>>>>>>> Zeroturnaround
>>>>>>>>>> web frameworks survey to think "hey man, nice logo!"?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I'm not a social media designer, and for that reason
I need to
>>>>>>>>>> interact
>>>>>>>>>> with a designer. I need inspiration and suggestions
to formulate
>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>> turn
>>>>>>>>>> which directions to go for the next iteration. Since
I'm not a
>>>>>>>>>> designer,
>>>>>>>>>> I'm for sure too lame with my own cool logo proposal.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Over all the years I was involved with design tasks,
I've seen
>>>>>>>>>> design
>>>>>>>>>> emerge after some iterations in a process similar
to what I
>>>>>>>>>> outlined
>>>>>>>>>> above. I have never ever experienced being given
a first proposal
>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>> makes it directly to production.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>  Personally I am super-happy that we have such a
great proposal.
>>>>>>>>>>> And if we don't have another option (one of us
devs IS a
>>>>>>>>>>> designer AND
>>>>>>>>>>> does some work)
>>>>>>>>>>> we should definitely consider it.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>  I'm super happy with the work being done, and
I like some of
>>>>>>>>>> the ideas
>>>>>>>>>> incorporated in the first proposals. I like the fact
that someone
>>>>>>>>>> steps
>>>>>>>>>> up and is kind enough to donate work and creativity,
and I am
>>>>>>>>>> super
>>>>>>>>>> thankful for that - and, to be honest, it makes me
bit shy to
>>>>>>>>>> provide
>>>>>>>>>> too much criticism, especially since it is not my
profession the
>>>>>>>>>> actual
>>>>>>>>>> work is all about.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I went back and forth many times the last two weeks
to think and
>>>>>>>>>> re-think if I like the logo, how it might be seen,
and what well
>>>>>>>>>> founded
>>>>>>>>>> criticism I could give. In my review I tried to both
incorporate
>>>>>>>>>> what
>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>> as a non-professional know about design, as well
as what I as a
>>>>>>>>>> "professional design recipient" (read: consumer)
feel when I see
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>  logo.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>  Some of my thoughts:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Most common to me seems a combination of a dedicated
logo icon
>>>>>>>>>> with a
>>>>>>>>>> clean writing for the brand, or just an elaborate
writing without
>>>>>>>>>> logo
>>>>>>>>>> icon. From time to time you see some font gimmickry
to make a pure
>>>>>>>>>> writing recognizable. But I have failed so far to
come up with a
>>>>>>>>>> example
>>>>>>>>>> for a iconified design building a writing and a font
design.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Have a look at those two sites (scroll to bottom
on both)
>>>>>>>>>> http://devoxx.be/#/sponsors
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.gopivotal.com/
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> There a good bunch of logos, both of companies and
open source
>>>>>>>>>> projects,
>>>>>>>>>> that look cool, clean and modern, yet timeless.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> If you want to follow newest hipster logo trends,
>>>>>>>>>> http://gruntjs.com/
>>>>>>>>>> might be a source for inspiration. Nevertheless,
this seems to be
>>>>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>>>>> so
>>>>>>>>>> much on the timeless side...
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> That said and reviewed many times during last week,
I'm more in
>>>>>>>>>> favor
>>>>>>>>>> for the combination of an icon symbol combined with
with a clean
>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>> modern typographic font for the brand name Struts.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Stepping back a bit when viewing the proposed designs,
what
>>>>>>>>>> strikes me
>>>>>>>>>> most is that iconified graphic elements are used
to construct a
>>>>>>>>>> font.
>>>>>>>>>> How does this font look like? It does not seem to
follow all of
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> well
>>>>>>>>>> established rules for font design. If you color it
completely
>>>>>>>>>> black
>>>>>>>>>> from
>>>>>>>>>> the outline and reduce it to the font shape, it does
not look like
>>>>>>>>>> very
>>>>>>>>>> "clean" typography, even a bit clunky. But besides
(or even more
>>>>>>>>>> than?)
>>>>>>>>>> graphical details and tasteful colouring, the shape
makes the
>>>>>>>>>> first
>>>>>>>>>> impression to a viewer. I doubt that it is a good
idea to bind the
>>>>>>>>>> font
>>>>>>>>>> shape of a writing to iconified graphics as building
blocks, as
>>>>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>>>>> limits how elaborate the typographic shape itself
will look like.
>>>>>>>>>> Designing a font is a science by itself, you can
find tons of
>>>>>>>>>> information on the web. Just for some reading giving
an
>>>>>>>>>> impression:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> http://designshack.net/articles/typography/8-rules-
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> for-creating-effective-typography/
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>  As for me, this breaks down to: I have tried to like
it, but - as
>>>>>>>>>> proposed so far - I don't. This is my honest personal
view. And I
>>>>>>>>>> also
>>>>>>>>>> think it is a great starting point to go into design
iteration. It
>>>>>>>>>> teases me to think, it gives the inspiration someone
like me
>>>>>>>>>> needs to
>>>>>>>>>> imagine and maybe phrase what he thinks the final
logo (or a next
>>>>>>>>>> step)
>>>>>>>>>> should look like.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Earlier in this discussion, Dave came up with an
interesting
>>>>>>>>>> Google
>>>>>>>>>> search for an isolated logo icon to maybe be combined
with a clean
>>>>>>>>>> brand
>>>>>>>>>> writing:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> https://www.google.com/search?q=steampunk+box+truss&safe=on&
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> espv=210&es_sm=91&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=
>>>>>>>> HjuCUq3NCYrnsATbvYLIBQ&ved=0CAkQ_AUoAQ&biw=1478&bih=1042#
>>>>>>>> es_sm=91&espv=210&q=box+truss&safe=off&tbm=isch
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>  Those two for example could be excellent templates for
an
>>>>>>>>>> iconified
>>>>>>>>>> logo
>>>>>>>>>> graphic:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.google.com/imgres?safe=off&es_sm=91&espv=210&
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> bih=1042&biw=1478&tbm=isch&tbnid=eQDpP6WpnMmoXM:&imgrefurl=
>>>>>>>> http://www.
>>>>>>>> germanlightproducts.com/products/16-inch-square-box-
>>>>>>>> truss-f44/&docid=
>>>>>>>> yGLxIpnpCserbM&imgurl=http://www.germanlightproducts.com/
>>>>>>>> wp-content/uploads/2013/01/F44Box_0.jpg&w=1024&h=768&ei=
>>>>>>>> zPCRUtuZOYbjswaHzoCwCA&zoom=1&ved=1t:3588,r:73,s:0,i:305&
>>>>>>>> iact=rc&page=3&tbnh=176&tbnw=236&start=67&ndsp=35&tx=155&ty=76
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.google.com/imgres?safe=off&es_sm=91&espv=210&
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> bih=1042&biw=1478&tbm=isch&tbnid=rGzeKbh__BY3LM:&imgrefurl=
>>>>>>>> http://www.
>>>>>>>> brownswelding.com.au/truss500/&docid=-uk8Vty_qJyznM&imgurl=
>>>>>>>> http://www.brownswelding.com.au/truss500/images/500box6way.
>>>>>>>> jpg&w=200&h=200&ei=zPCRUtuZOYbjswaHzoCwCA&zoom=1&
>>>>>>>> ved=1t:3588,r:78,s:0,i:320&iact=rc&page=3&tbnh=160&tbnw=
>>>>>>>> 160&start=67&ndsp=35&tx=60&ty=50
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>  Also a very reduced and iconified bridge could be interesting
for
>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>> logo
>>>>>>>>>> icon.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I suck badly at crafting graphics, but if time permits
I'll give
>>>>>>>>>> it a
>>>>>>>>>> try to express my thoughts in some graphical draft.
But basically
>>>>>>>>>> my
>>>>>>>>>> overall thoughts go into a direction like the Typesafe
or
>>>>>>>>>> Hazelcast
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>  logos.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>  As far as I understood it, this contribution is backed
by Lukasz
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> company. I am very grateful
>>>>>>>>>>> for the huge effort they already put into this.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>  +1
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Instead of discussing completely new approaches and
ideas which
>>>>>>>>>> might
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> lead to even more discussion,
>>>>>>>>>>> we all should answer these two question:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> 1) Can you live with the proposal logo?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> just me: actually no, but it's a great start :)
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> 2) If yes, do you prefer the dark or the bright version?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> My answer to 1) is YES!!!!
>>>>>>>>>>> My answer to 2) I LOVE BOTH
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers
>>>>>>>>>>> Christian
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>  Regards
>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>> Łukasz
>>>>>>>>>>>> + 48 606 323 122 http://www.lenart.org.pl/
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>>>>> ---------
>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@struts.apache.org
>>>>>>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@struts.apache.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> ---
>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.grobmeier.de
>>>>>>>>>>> @grobmeier
>>>>>>>>>>> GPG: 0xA5CC90DB
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>>>> ---------
>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@struts.apache.org
>>>>>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@struts.apache.org
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>> René Gielen
>>>>>>>>>> http://twitter.com/rgielen
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>>> ---------
>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@struts.apache.org
>>>>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@struts.apache.org
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> Łukasz
>>>>>>>> + 48 606 323 122 http://www.lenart.org.pl/
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>> ---------
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@struts.apache.org
>>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@struts.apache.org
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>  ------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> ---------
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@struts.apache.org
>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@struts.apache.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  ------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> ---------
>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@struts.apache.org
>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@struts.apache.org
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Łukasz
>>> + 48 606 323 122 http://www.lenart.org.pl/
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@struts.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@struts.apache.org
>>>
>>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@struts.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@struts.apache.org
>>
>>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@struts.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@struts.apache.org
>
>


-- 
e: davelnewton@gmail.com
m: 908-380-8699
s: davelnewton_skype
t: @dave_newton <https://twitter.com/dave_newton>
b: Bucky Bits <http://buckybits.blogspot.com/>
g: davelnewton <https://github.com/davelnewton>
so: Dave Newton <http://stackoverflow.com/users/438992/dave-newton>

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