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From "info@flyingfischer.ch" <i...@flyingfischer.ch>
Subject Re: New logo
Date Fri, 07 Mar 2014 16:50:49 GMT
Wow! From the second position it's great!

All blue colors work fine. Personally the second version strikes me the 
best. It's show most structure and shines nicely...

Markus

Am 07.03.2014 15:53, schrieb Lukasz Lenart:
> New colors https://copy.com/mewPAFa0GuQo and designer's answer:
>
> Several blue variants to be considered. As well as several fonts.
>
> I do not agree about the font - I like it very much, it is modern -
> not all serifs are outdated.
>
> The font is called Aleo, you can read some here
> http://fontfabric.com/aleo-free-font/
>
> 2014-03-07 15:29 GMT+01:00 Andrew Carr <andrewlanecarr@gmail.com>:
>> I have a tattoo already.
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 6:49 AM, Matthew Panetta <matthew@panetta.id.au>wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> On 7 Mar 2014, at 10:46 pm, Dave Newton <davelnewton@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Honestly, if it comes down to it, I'm willing to throw some money at
>>>> 99designs to get it done right.
>>>>
>>>> Another issue I had was the really thin whitespace lines in the logo;
>>> that
>>>> can make some printing a bit trickier.
>>>>
>>>> Because we all want t-shirts and tattoos, right?
>>>>
>>>> Right?
>>>>
>>>> Anyone?
>>>
>>> Sure, why not.
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 6:42 AM, info@flyingfischer.ch <
>>> info@flyingfischer.ch
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Voltaire and Oswald seem to be condensed fonts, while Alegreya Sans SC
>>> and
>>>>> Alef and others aren't.
>>>>>
>>>>> I always feel typography is a very difficult job and needs to be seen
in
>>>>> the given case.
>>>>>
>>>>> Maybe the graphic guy could make some suggestions, choosing the
>>>>> appropriate kind of font for the situation?
>>>>>
>>>>> Markus
>>>>>
>>>>> Am 07.03.2014 12:08, schrieb Matthew Panetta:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I like Roboto and Inconsolata.  Also found Voltaire and Oswald.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.google.com/fonts#ReviewPlace:refine/Collection:
>>>>>> Alegreya+Sans+SC|Viga|Audiowide|Carrois+Gothic+SC|Alef|Roboto|Nobile|
>>>>>> Inconsolata|Voltaire|Oswald<
>>> https://www.google.com/fonts#ReviewPlace:refine/Collection:Alegreya+Sans+SC%7CViga%7CAudiowide%7CCarrois+Gothic+SC%7CAlef%7CRoboto%7CNobile%7CInconsolata%7CVoltaire%7COswald
>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 7 Mar 2014, at 6:05 pm, Lukasz Lenart <lukaszlenart@apache.org>
>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Maybe some of these
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://www.google.com/fonts#ReviewPlace:refine/Collection:
>>>>>>> Alegreya+Sans+SC|Flamenco|Cambo|Esteban|Audiowide|
>>>>>>>
>>> Carrois+Gothic+SC|Alef|Prosto+One|Varela+Round|Roboto|Nobile|Inconsolata<
>>> https://www.google.com/fonts#ReviewPlace:refine/Collection:Alegreya+Sans+SC%7CFlamenco%7CCambo%7CEsteban%7CAudiowide%7CCarrois+Gothic+SC%7CAlef%7CProsto+One%7CVarela+Round%7CRoboto%7CNobile%7CInconsolata
>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 2014-03-07 7:47 GMT+01:00 Matthew Panetta <matthew@panetta.id.au>:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> My thoughts exactly. Needs a different font.
>>>>>>>> On 07/03/2014 5:41 pm, "info@flyingfischer.ch" <
>>> info@flyingfischer.ch>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The Logo looks nice. Has a slight reference to the art work
of M.C.
>>>>>>>>> Escher. Great work.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Blue is always nice ;-)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The typography however gives the whole logo a not too
modern touch,
>>>>>>>>> because it uses letters with serifs. I wonder if this
will match
>>> nicely
>>>>>>>>> with the serif free home page of struts 2?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Best regards
>>>>>>>>> Markus Fischer
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Am 07.03.2014 06:50, schrieb Lukasz Lenart:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Link if attachment is missing
>>>>>>>>>> https://copy.com/MXrnIYz8KajY
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> 2014-03-07 0:01 GMT+01:00 Chris Pratt <thechrispratt@gmail.com>:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I must have missed it, I don't see anything??
>>>>>>>>>>>    (*Chris*)
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Mar 6, 2014 at 2:00 PM, Lukasz Lenart
<
>>>>>>>>>>> lukaszlenart@apache.org>
>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Work continues, 3rd version of logo, wdyt? I
think dark-blue
>>> version
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> would be also nice.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> 2013-11-26 8:59 GMT+01:00 Lukasz Lenart <lukaszlenart@apache.org
>>>> :
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I have passed your comment to designer -
anyway we have time and
>>> we
>>>>>>>>>>>>> can always start over when the first
logo won't be good enough
>>> ;-)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Reagrds
>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Łukasz
>>>>>>>>>>>>> + 48 606 323 122 http://www.lenart.org.pl/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2013/11/24 Rene Gielen <rene.gielen@gmail.com>:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Am 20.11.13 14:52, schrieb Christian
Grobmeier:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 12 Nov 2013, at 16:51, Lukasz
Lenart wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2013/11/12 Cameron Morris <cmorris@part.net>:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I love the look of steampunk
and rickety old bridges, but I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> think
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sends
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the wrong message for
a project fighting the perception of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> being
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> old
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> legacy.  I'd say the more modern looking
the better.  However,
>>> some
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> more modern bridges look
so space age it might be hard to
>>> tell
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> are bridges if they are made into a small
icon.  Perhaps some of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> these
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> might spark an idea: http://www.flickr.com/search/?
>>>>>>>>>>>>> q=modern%20bridge
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hmm... you know everything
new someday will be old anyway ;-)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rather say let's focus on
having cool logo and not the
>>> message
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sends ;-)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> +1 on the cool logo NOW instead
of wasting more time.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Its always funny with us devs.
We have a crap logo for years.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Somebody shows up and contributes
a fantastic logo (compared
>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> other one).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Suddenly all devs become designers
and social media
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> communicators.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You are right with our out-of-style
old logo, and that things
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> should
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> change here. But why exactly are
we in such a hurry? Going too
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> long
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> an old logo does not mean that a
new logo should replace the
>>> old
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> one
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> soon as it is just "better". IMHO
we would want to replace it
>>> with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> something that satisfies us for years.
It should be cool and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> catchy
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> now
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and in five years. "Fantastic compared
to the other one" is IMO
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> enough. Do we want old-time users
to be surprised to find
>>> better
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> logo
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> now, or do we want anyone stumbling
over our site or a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Zeroturnaround
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> web frameworks survey to think "hey
man, nice logo!"?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm not a social media designer,
and for that reason I need to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> interact
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with a designer. I need inspiration
and suggestions to
>>> formulate
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> turn
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> which directions to go for the next
iteration. Since I'm not a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> designer,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm for sure too lame with my own
cool logo proposal.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Over all the years I was involved
with design tasks, I've seen
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> design
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> emerge after some iterations in a
process similar to what I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> outlined
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> above. I have never ever experienced
being given a first
>>> proposal
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> makes it directly to production.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Personally I am super-happy that
we have such a great proposal.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And if we don't have another
option (one of us devs IS a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> designer AND
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> does some work)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we should definitely consider
it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm super happy with the work
being done, and I like some of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the ideas
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> incorporated in the first proposals.
I like the fact that
>>> someone
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> steps
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> up and is kind enough to donate work
and creativity, and I am
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> super
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thankful for that - and, to be honest,
it makes me bit shy to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> provide
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> too much criticism, especially since
it is not my profession
>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> actual
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> work is all about.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I went back and forth many times
the last two weeks to think
>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> re-think if I like the logo, how
it might be seen, and what
>>> well
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> founded
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> criticism I could give. In my review
I tried to both
>>> incorporate
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as a non-professional know about
design, as well as what I as a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "professional design recipient" (read:
consumer) feel when I
>>> see
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> logo.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Some of my thoughts:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Most common to me seems a combination
of a dedicated logo icon
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> clean writing for the brand, or just
an elaborate writing
>>> without
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> logo
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> icon. From time to time you see some
font gimmickry to make a
>>> pure
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> writing recognizable. But I have
failed so far to come up with
>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> example
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for a iconified design building a
writing and a font design.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Have a look at those two sites (scroll
to bottom on both)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://devoxx.be/#/sponsors
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.gopivotal.com/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> There a good bunch of logos, both
of companies and open source
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> projects,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that look cool, clean and modern,
yet timeless.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If you want to follow newest hipster
logo trends,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://gruntjs.com/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> might be a source for inspiration.
Nevertheless, this seems to
>>> be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> so
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> much on the timeless side...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That said and reviewed many times
during last week, I'm more in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> favor
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for the combination of an icon symbol
combined with with a
>>> clean
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> modern typographic font for the brand
name Struts.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Stepping back a bit when viewing
the proposed designs, what
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> strikes me
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> most is that iconified graphic elements
are used to construct a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> font.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> How does this font look like? It
does not seem to follow all of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> well
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> established rules for font design.
If you color it completely
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> black
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the outline and reduce it to the
font shape, it does not look
>>> like
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> very
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "clean" typography, even a bit clunky.
But besides (or even
>>> more
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> than?)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> graphical details and tasteful colouring,
the shape makes the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> first
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> impression to a viewer. I doubt that
it is a good idea to bind
>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> font
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> shape of a writing to iconified graphics
as building blocks, as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> limits how elaborate the typographic
shape itself will look
>>> like.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Designing a font is a science by
itself, you can find tons of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> information on the web. Just for
some reading giving an
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> impression:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://designshack.net/articles/typography/8-rules-
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> for-creating-effective-typography/
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> As for me, this breaks down to: I have
tried to like it, but -
>>> as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> proposed so far - I don't. This is
my honest personal view.
>>> And I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> also
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> think it is a great starting point
to go into design
>>> iteration. It
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> teases me to think, it gives the
inspiration someone like me
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> needs to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> imagine and maybe phrase what he
thinks the final logo (or a
>>> next
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> step)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> should look like.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Earlier in this discussion, Dave
came up with an interesting
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Google
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> search for an isolated logo icon
to maybe be combined with a
>>> clean
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> brand
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> writing:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.google.com/search?q=steampunk+box+truss&safe=on&
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> espv=210&es_sm=91&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=
>>>>>>>>>>>> HjuCUq3NCYrnsATbvYLIBQ&ved=0CAkQ_AUoAQ&biw=1478&bih=1042#
>>>>>>>>>>>> es_sm=91&espv=210&q=box+truss&safe=off&tbm=isch
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Those two for example could be excellent
templates for an
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> iconified
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> logo
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> graphic:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.google.com/imgres?safe=off&es_sm=91&espv=210&
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> bih=1042&biw=1478&tbm=isch&tbnid=eQDpP6WpnMmoXM:&imgrefurl=
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.
>>>>>>>>>>>> germanlightproducts.com/products/16-inch-square-box-
>>>>>>>>>>>> truss-f44/&docid=
>>>>>>>>>>>> yGLxIpnpCserbM&imgurl=http://www.germanlightproducts.com/
>>>>>>>>>>>> wp-content/uploads/2013/01/F44Box_0.jpg&w=1024&h=768&ei=
>>>>>>>>>>>> zPCRUtuZOYbjswaHzoCwCA&zoom=1&ved=1t:3588,r:73,s:0,i:305&
>>>>>>>>>>>> iact=rc&page=3&tbnh=176&tbnw=236&start=67&ndsp=35&tx=155&ty=76
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.google.com/imgres?safe=off&es_sm=91&espv=210&
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> bih=1042&biw=1478&tbm=isch&tbnid=rGzeKbh__BY3LM:&imgrefurl=
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.
>>>>>>>>>>>> brownswelding.com.au/truss500/&docid=-uk8Vty_qJyznM&imgurl=
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.brownswelding.com.au/truss500/images/500box6way.
>>>>>>>>>>>> jpg&w=200&h=200&ei=zPCRUtuZOYbjswaHzoCwCA&zoom=1&
>>>>>>>>>>>> ved=1t:3588,r:78,s:0,i:320&iact=rc&page=3&tbnh=160&tbnw=
>>>>>>>>>>>> 160&start=67&ndsp=35&tx=60&ty=50
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Also a very reduced and iconified bridge
could be interesting
>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> logo
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> icon.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I suck badly at crafting graphics,
but if time permits I'll
>>> give
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> try to express my thoughts in some
graphical draft. But
>>> basically
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> my
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> overall thoughts go into a direction
like the Typesafe or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hazelcast
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> logos.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> As far as I understood it, this contribution
is backed by Lukasz
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> company. I am very grateful
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for the huge effort they already
put into this.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> +1
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Instead of discussing completely
new approaches and ideas which
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> might
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lead to even more discussion,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we all should answer these two
question:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1) Can you live with the proposal
logo?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> just me: actually no, but it's a
great start :)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2) If yes, do you prefer the dark
or the bright version?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> My answer to 1) is YES!!!!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> My answer to 2) I LOVE BOTH
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Christian
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Regards
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Łukasz
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> + 48 606 323 122 http://www.lenart.org.pl/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ---------
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@struts.apache.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> For additional commands,
e-mail: dev-help@struts.apache.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ---
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.grobmeier.de
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> @grobmeier
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> GPG: 0xA5CC90DB
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ---------
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@struts.apache.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail:
dev-help@struts.apache.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> René Gielen
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://twitter.com/rgielen
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ---------
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@struts.apache.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail:
dev-help@struts.apache.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>> Łukasz
>>>>>>>>>>>> + 48 606 323 122 http://www.lenart.org.pl/
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>>>>> ---------
>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@struts.apache.org
>>>>>>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@struts.apache.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>>> ---------
>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@struts.apache.org
>>>>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@struts.apache.org
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>> ---------
>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@struts.apache.org
>>>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@struts.apache.org
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Łukasz
>>>>>>> + 48 606 323 122 http://www.lenart.org.pl/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@struts.apache.org
>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@struts.apache.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@struts.apache.org
>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@struts.apache.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@struts.apache.org
>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@struts.apache.org
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> e: davelnewton@gmail.com
>>>> m: 908-380-8699
>>>> s: davelnewton_skype
>>>> t: @dave_newton <https://twitter.com/dave_newton>
>>>> b: Bucky Bits <http://buckybits.blogspot.com/>
>>>> g: davelnewton <https://github.com/davelnewton>
>>>> so: Dave Newton <http://stackoverflow.com/users/438992/dave-newton>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> With Regards,
>> Andrew Carr
>>
>> e. andrewlanecarr@gmail.com
>> w. andrew.carr@openlogic.com
>> h. 4235255668
>> c. 4239489852
>> a. 101 Francis Drive, Greeneville, TN, 37743
>
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