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From Rene Gielen <rgie...@apache.org>
Subject Re: Struts2 jQuery Plugin - Logo
Date Sun, 26 Jul 2009 12:12:05 GMT
That is what I also regognize from the disussions a while ago.

We all know that the Dojo tags turned out as a nightmare. Dojo looked
promising back in these days, with all it's supporters and some good
solutions when there were only few alternative frameworks around.
Nevertheless, not only the programming model was hard to get and to
understand, also the API was in constant flux without ever coming to a
stable state for years. Today we can consider Dojo as the biggest loser
in the JS framework run.

jQuery nowadays has turned out to be stable both in functionality and
API stability, compact, fast, mature and easy to understand. It can
really be considered as _the_ JS/AJAX framework besides Prototype, and
the adoption is overwhelming. Many Java web delvelopers, including a
couple a S2 community members I know of, have already incorporated plain
jQuery into their projects and built up a good knowledge about it. Most
of our "competitors" incorporate it either directly or via mature
plugins, have a look at Myfaces, Richfaces, Icefaces or Wicket.

My feeling was that there was a consensus that jQuery would be the way
to go if we wanted to go provide a good AJAX solution, but we had not
enough resources to build a plugin from scratch. Now Johannes stepped up
and presented a complete plugin, and IMO we should see this as a great
opportunity. If we don't want to fall terribly behind the other web
frameworks, we need a decent and state of the art AJAX support - pure
Web 1.0 interfaces are more and more going away, and people tend to
judge a web framework for consideration in their projects also by it's
AJAX capabilities - e.g. when Rainer and I did some Struts 2 talks the
last couple of months for JUG Cologne, that was a very clear feedback we
got from many people in the audience.

Once the plugin is there, I don't see why it would be any harder to
maintain than oher external library plugins we have, let's say Spring or
Sitemesh or what not - especially since I suspect a lot of S2 developers
and community members are using jQuery on regular basis and will be able
to help with their experience. Also, we don't have to fear an API
breaking with every minor release as we had with Dojo, which made
maintaining it that hard.

- René

Musachy Barroso schrieb:
> A while back we said that we would remove the "ajax built in" from the
> feature list if we didn't find a replacement for the Dojo tags. Some
> work was done on a  jquery plugin by Wes, and I think I dropped 1 line
> of code somewhere, but is hasn't got far, but we do want simple ajax
> tags to replace the dojo ones.
> 
> The way I see it, and I thought we were all in the same page, is that
> we should have very simple ajax tags for the simple use cases, and not
> go beyond that. The simple ajax tags is not the problem, the problem
> is the library that we used to implement it which ended up creating a
> bigger problem that it was supposed to fix.
> 
> musachy
> 
> On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 11:47 AM, Martin Cooper<martinc@apache.org> wrote:
>> Whoa. Before we go rushing off gung ho to include this as part of Struts
>> itself, shall we re-discuss the topic that, right now, applies to this
>> plugin just as much as to the Dojo tags?
>>
>> I mean, of course, the fact that we specifically decided that we didn't want
>> to support a specific AJAX library any more, as a part of the main Struts
>> distribution. We didn't want to get ourselves into a situation in which we
>> had a set of tags that relied on an external library that we would then be
>> expected to support. We didn't want to have another AJAX plugin as part of
>> Struts that a very small number, if any, of our committers could - and,
>> especially, would - support on an ongoing basis.
>>
>> I'm not fundamentally opposed to bringing this in, but let's not get too
>> goggle-eyed over this and forget all the issues that we've hit and discussed
>> before. If we want to make a conscious decision to change our collective
>> mind, so to speak, then OK, but let's be aware that that's what we seem to
>> be talking about right now.
>>
>> --
>> Martin Cooper
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 7:15 AM, Wes Wannemacher <wesw@wantii.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I'd rather consider trying to bring this into the main struts distro.
>>> I didn't look at the code, but if other devs are interested in this
>>> route, we have to consider the following -
>>>
>>> IP Clearance
>>> Our testing policy
>>>
>>> I think we can handle the IP clearance, as long as we know it's a step
>>> we'd have to make. As I've said before on the testing policy, we'd be
>>> better served to use selenium rather than JUnit to deal with an AJAX
>>> plugin (just my opinion)...
>>>
>>> Anyone else have any thoughts?
>>>
>>> -Wes
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 10:06 AM, Johannes Geppert<jogep@web.de> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Rene Gielen wrote:
>>>>> Brilliant work! I would love to see this integrated in S2 distribution,
>>>>> if possible. Did you already setup a maven repo location for it? If not,
>>>>> let me know if you need help to add a repo space to your google code
svn
>>>>> area.
>>>>>
>>>> I'am glad that you like the plugin. I don't have any experience with
>>> maven,
>>>> so it will be nice if you can help me to add it to google code.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----
>>>> ---
>>>> web: http://www.jgeppert.com
>>>> twitter: http://twitter.com/jogep
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> View this message in context:
>>> http://www.nabble.com/Struts2-jQuery-Plugin---Logo-tp24642384p24645147.html
>>>> Sent from the Struts - Dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@struts.apache.org
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Wes Wannemacher
>>>
>>> Head Engineer, WanTii, Inc.
>>> Need Training? Struts, Spring, Maven, Tomcat...
>>> Ask me for a quote!
>>>
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>>>
>>>
> 
> 
> 

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