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From Adam Hardy <>
Subject Re: S2 as JSR for Action Framework
Date Mon, 25 Aug 2008 23:35:34 GMT
Frank W. Zammetti on 25/08/08 05:36, wrote:
> Don Brown wrote:
>> This is a nice design, when you can do it. GWT is also a good way to
>> build these types of apps.  Unfortunately, they can easily break much
>> of what makes the web what it is - the back button, unique,
>> addressable URI's, accessibility, search engine crawling, etc.
> It's always interesting how often you hear the "this breaks the web"
> sorts of statements.  I'm not arguing the factuality of the statement, I
> just find it interesting.  It's also interesting the way you put it
> here... you don't say anything like "this breaks the web", nor do you
> make a value judgment on it (well, I suppose the word "unfortunately"
> implies a value judgment, but it's not explicit).
> I think we're at an interesting point in time right now... many people
> are kind of mentally stuck in the sense that they see the ways in which
> RIAs (can) break things like the back button and they think "well,
> that's bad".  But, maybe we shouldn't be asking if RIAs are the way to
> go, but we should instead be asking different questions like "is the
> back button as a navigational metaphor something we really want to be
> perpetuating anyway"?
> It's kind of like if someone came up with a hydrogen-based fuel system
> for cars but for some reason (work with me here!) you could never use a
> cell phone in the car or it'd explode... I don't think we shouldn't at
> that point be asking if the fuel system is the right answer or not, we
> should be asking whether the limitation it imposes is something that
> should factor into the decision at all in the first place.  Wouldn't we
> be better off if you couldn't use cell phones in cars anyway?!?
> Note that I'm not making a value judgment here either necessarily,
> although I suspect my opinion is fairly obvious :)  I do think we're in
> the midst of a paradigm shift to a large extent, and I think there's
> some fascinating consequences of that shift.


do you not use the back button?

I reckon I use it from around 5 to 50 times a day.

I think the paradigm shift is less a shift and more of a paradigm split. Web2 
and javascript-based apps have taken their place (after 10 years finally) at the 
top of the web food chain. What's the best term? Rich client?

But Web2 hasn't replaced bog-standard HTML as its version number suggests, it 
complements it, leaving a big space for low-Javascript clients which just use 
the barest minimum or no javascript.

It's obviously only the former websites which need no back-button, and obviously 
the latter where the back button is very useful.

Maybe W3C has already thought of this - I don't know - and we'll see 
window.disableHistory appear in the DOM (or something similar)


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