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From "Musachy Barroso" <musa...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: [S2] [2.1.x] Bundled Plugins
Date Tue, 21 Aug 2007 14:56:29 GMT
Yeah that's what I thought, per Ted's comments we can't do that.
Having independent releases for the plugins would be another boost.

musachy

On 8/21/07, Paul Benedict <pbenedict@apache.org> wrote:
> What's the traction on having S2 plugin-only committers? I am referring to a
> previous email from Antonio. Just like people sign CLA to write
> documentation, I think our plugin development would have a major boost if we
> could have plugin-only committers too.
>
> Paul
>
> On 8/21/07, Nils-Helge Garli <nilsga@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > I guess that's a question of definition, viewed in a historical
> > perspective ;) But I do intend to keep actively maintaining it, and a
> > few more people maintaining it would be very welcome!
> >
> > Nils-H
> >
> > On 8/21/07, James Holmes <james@jamesholmes.com> wrote:
> > > +1 for keeping the Portlet plugin in the core Struts 2 distribution and
> > project. Nils-H is actively maintaining it and I am
> > > interested in maintaining it as well.
> > >
> > > James
> > >
> > >
> > > On Tue Aug 21  1:43 , 'Nils-Helge Garli' <nilsga@gmail.com> sent:
> > >
> > > >I couldn't fint the portlet plugin mentioned on the list of plugins
> > > >for the different tiers. Where does it fit in?
> > > >
> > > >As a plugin developer, I would definetively see it as a motivation
> > > >having the "Struts 2" brand on the plugin.
> > > >
> > > >Nils-H
> > > >
> > > >On 8/20/07, Don Brown mrdon@twdata.org> wrote:
> > > >> Makes sense to me.   Would we bundle the second-tier plugins in our
> > > >> release or just the first tier?  Would second-tier plugins each get
> > > >> their own release cycle, share one together, or be linked to the main
> > > >> Struts 2 release cycle?
> > > >>
> > > >> Don
> > > >>
> > > >> On 8/20/07, Paul Benedict pbenedict@apache.org> wrote:
> > > >> > Hi all.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > I think the Spring framework has a great model for this kind
of
> > problem.
> > > >> > They call it the "Spring portfolio" which is the Spring Framework
> > (proper)
> > > >> > and then subprojects for very special criteria (security, web
> > services,
> > > >> > etc.). We all know Spring is pretty good at integrating
> > technologies, but
> > > >> > not every technology has the "weight" to get first tier support.
> > When it is
> > > >> > lesser, they get maintained in the "Spring Modules" project.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > I think we could do the same thing here. Struts 2 could include
> > only
> > > >> > first-tier plugins that actually are part of the Struts release,
> > but then
> > > >> > have another Struts subproject that maintains other plugins.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > In case someone may bring up Shale and the old "umbrella" framework
> > > >> > argument, I think my proposal is quite different. I am not
> > proposing
> > > >> > different frameworks and communities, but simply creating another
> > Maven
> > > >> > project under Struts for Struts plugins.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Paul
> > > >> >
> > > >> > On 8/19/07, Frank W. Zammetti fzlists@omnytex.com> wrote:
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > > Martin Cooper wrote:
> > > >> > > > Perhaps. Perhaps not. But it's pretty much guaranteed
that we
> > would
> > > >> > > lower
> > > >> > > > the base of people who _could_ use them if they're
not here.
> > Some
> > > >> > > companies
> > > >> > > > (my current employer included) require approval for
each and
> > every open
> > > >> > > > source component before it can be used within the company.
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > > FYI, I'm in the same boat where I am, and I know the hassles
we
> > go
> > > >> > > through sometimes to get various libraries/components/whatever
> > approved,
> > > >> > > so I definitely know where your coming from with this point.
 In
> > talking
> > > >> > > to other folks, this doesn't seem to be unusual at all.
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > > > I disagree. I think it is just fine to distribute such
code. If
> > people
> > > >> > > start
> > > >> > > > to use it and have problems with it, then perhaps this
will
> > drive
> > > >> > > additional
> > > >> > > > contributors to it. Gaining additional contributors
to it as
> > part of
> > > >> > > Struts
> > > >> > > > seems much more likely to me than if it's off in the
weeds
> > somewhere.
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > > You mentioned the "...respected source such as the ASF"
in the
> > previous
> > > >> > > paragraph, and I certainly agree.  I think however that
if the
> > approach
> > > >> > > was as you say, that potentially untested code, or more
> > accurately code
> > > >> > > not used to a great extent by active committers, which I
believe
> > is what
> > > >> > > Ted was talking about, was coming out of a respected ASF
project,
> > it's
> > > >> > > not hard to imagine that respect declining when a lot of
bug
> > reports are
> > > >> > > opened for a particular plugin.  One plugin could wind up
ruining
> > the
> > > >> > > good reputation of the larger project.
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > > And if no one was maintaining and using that code to begin
with,
> > I think
> > > >> > > it's a bit of a gamble to hope someone will be spurred into
> > action by
> > > >> > > some negative feedback.  Maybe someone will be, but I don't
think
> > that's
> > > >> > > a risk worth taking if you want to keep a good reputation
and
> > keep being
> > > >> > > a respected project :)
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > > I for one see Ted's suggestion as a good compromise... you
could
> > almost
> > > >> > > in a sense view the external location, wherever that happens
to
> > be, as
> > > >> > > something of a plugin incubator... assure the code has a
> > community of
> > > >> > > developers willing to maintain it and ensure it's at a level
of
> > quality
> > > >> > > that fits in with the rest of the S2 distro proper, and
*then*
> > roll it
> > > >> > > in to the distro later.  For any plugin that there's any
doubt
> > about
> > > >> > > today (and I don't know which those are), they can be shifted
> > there and
> > > >> > > allowed to grow that community.  And if some never do, it's
not
> > the end
> > > >> > > of the world: they're still there for anyone that wants
them.
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > > To address the concern you raised about approvals, I think
it
> > would be
> > > >> > > important to make the external location an endorsed source
of
> > plugins.
> > > >> > > Maybe it makes more sense to have a plugins subproject under
> > Struts, I
> > > >> > > don't know, but whatever the case, so long as people understood
> > that
> > > >> > > yes, this plugin repository/incubator/whatever was *the*
approved
> > place
> > > >> > > to get plugins from, I believe the approval process would
be
> > eased a bit
> > > >> > > for most users in that same situation as we are.
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > > At the end of the day, it's always said that an ASF project
> > depends on
> > > >> > > developers who themselves are using the code.  It's supposed
to
> > be code
> > > >> > > for themselves that they happen to share with others, that's
how
> > I've
> > > >> > > come to understand the underlying concept anyway.  If that's
> > true, then
> > > >> > > it seems like keeping code in S2 that might not be maintained
and
> > > >> > > actually used by active commutters is a contradiction of
that,
> > and Ted's
> > > >> > > suggestion offers a viable alternative that keeps the code
alive,
> > and in
> > > >> > > fact presents (possibly) a better chance for it to succeed.
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > > > --
> > > >> > > > Martin Cooper
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > > Frank
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > > --
> > > >> > > Frank W. Zammetti
> > > >> > > Founder and Chief Software Architect
> > > >> > > Omnytex Technologies
> > > >> > > http://www.omnytex.com
> > > >> > > AIM/Yahoo: fzammetti
> > > >> > > MSN: fzammetti@hotmail.com
> > > >> > > Author of "Practical Ajax Projects With Java Technology"
> > > >> > >   (2006, Apress, ISBN 1-59059-695-1)
> > > >> > > and "JavaScript, DOM Scripting and Ajax Projects"
> > > >> > >   (2007, Apress, ISBN 1-59059-816-4)
> > > >> > > Java Web Parts - http://javawebparts.sourceforge.net
> > > >> > >   Supplying the wheel, so you don't have to reinvent it!
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > >
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> > > >> > >
> > > >> > >
> > > >> >
> > > >>
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> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >
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> > >
> > >
> > >
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> >
>


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