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From Greg Reddin <>
Subject Re: Graduation Options (was Re: [PROPOSAL] Updated Tiles Graduation Proposal)
Date Tue, 28 Nov 2006 17:29:13 GMT

On Nov 28, 2006, at 9:46 AM, David H. DeWolf wrote:
> Greg Reddin wrote:
>> Here's the viable choices as I see them:
>> 1)  Jakarta Web Components Subproject - What components will make  
>> up this list?  Who all needs to be involved in the discussion?
> I'm not inclined to follow this path as Jakarta is already quite a  
> diverse group that is trying to become more centralized/focused in  
> order to build more community.  Brining in a new developers with no  
> other involvement in that community into the mix seems to create  
> more disconnect - not more community.

I would revise this option to be a Jakarta Tiles Subproject  
eventually to be part of a Web Components grouping if and when that  
is formalized.  That seems to be the more palatable option for the  
Jakarta community.  However I expect even this to come under some  
objection and take a lot of effort to push through with the diverse  

>> 2)  Apache Web Components TLP - What components will make up this  
>> list?  Who needs to be involved in the discussion?  What's the  
>> process to proceed?
> This is my preference.  I think the next steps would be to follow  
> up with the other potential projects to see if they are even  
> interested. The core ones that I'd start talking to are:
> - Tiles (Apache)
> - Jakarta Commons File Upload (Apache)
> - Java Web Parts (SF)
> - XAP (Apache Incubator)

I see this as being difficult to get approved, much less  
operational.  I think we need to have a real convincing argument for  
all these things to live together before we head down this road - not  
just for political reasons but practical reasons also. I'm not sure  
how this helps our community situation.  Why would a Web Parts  
developer start contributing to Tiles just because they are part of  
the same TLP.  I'm a Struts committer, but I've contributed very  
little to anything outside of Tiles.  I'm also a Shale committer, but  
I've not contributed much to the other parts of that project yet  
either.  Community doesn't just happen because we live in the same  
neighborhood or even the same house.  There has to be a common goal  
that will cause people to want to work on Tiles specifically I  
think.   It would make sense to bring Dimensions and Scopes into a  
Tiles project.  They deal directly with Tiles.  People interested in  
one will be interested in the other.  But the above list of  
components just don't have enough in common to build that kind of  
community IMO.

BTW, your statement about simultaneous releases really scares me :-)   
I didn't follow the discussion wrt Struts 2, but I'm having a hard  
time envisioning a release ever happening under that kind of strategy.

>> 3) Apache Tiles TLP - Seems we could do this here and now and  
>> submit a proposal to the board.  Who else should we bring into the  
>> discussion?
> Doable, and probably the easiest to get going - but also the  
> hardest to maintain.  It doesn't seem to me like there are enough  
> interested parties to carry the load.
> The original proposal that Ted referenced included the following  
> three individuals:  David Geary, Nathan Bubna, Matthias Wessendorf.  
> I wonder if they are still interested.

The potential lack of community is a risk, but it would be a focused  
group.  When all questions and contributions are diverted to that  
list the need will become evident and the community will grow or  
we'll get burned out and the project will go dormant.  But there's no  
reason to try to push a project doesn't have enough interest to  
support itself.

Sorry to be such a flip-flop.  I've been thinking so much about the  
"next step" that I haven't taken the time to think through the big  


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