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From Greg Reddin <gred...@apache.org>
Subject Re: Proposal for change
Date Tue, 25 Apr 2006 17:38:09 GMT

On Apr 25, 2006, at 9:55 AM, Frank W. Zammetti wrote:

> That depends entirely on your meaning of the word "closed".  You  
> make the
> argument that the number of new committers means it isn't closed,  
> and I
> agree with you to a degree.  But that's not the only meaning of
> "closed"... the invitations to those people came *soley* from the PMC
> AFAIK... the community had no say in it.  That's the thing my proposal
> seeks to address, that the initiation of someone being invited doesn't
> necessarily have to come from those already there (although they would
> still have the final say-so).

I have some serious concerns about this.  Let me just use myself as  
an example.  I've been a committer for about 6 months or so.  I have  
absolutely no idea what sort of discussion took place before I  
received that invitation.  If there was someone among the PMC who was  
vehemently opposed to my nomination I'm glad they had a confidential  
forum in which to discuss their concerns.  Now that I am a committer  
I can have an unbiased conversation with anybody else in the group  
without any preconceived notion of what that individual's opinion of  
me might be.  Truly, I don't have confidence that either user@ or  
dev@ is a place where concerns can be expressed openly without fear  
of unprofessional response.  It's just too easy for this kind of  
discussion to turn into personal attacks in a forum such as user@ or  
even dev@.

When Struts was a Jakarta subproject I remember committer votes  
taking place on dev@.  I always felt just a little uneasy about it.   
99 times out of 100 it was a unanimous +1 with no discussion.  But I  
seem to recall at least one case when concerns were expressed (sorry,  
I don't remember the specifics, please correct me if I'm wrong).  I  
feel really bad that this person's personal merit would have to be  
discussed in a public forum.  I understand some others' concerns  
about the community appearing to be closed, but I think there should  
be a barrier to entry.  Maybe it's too high, but it seems to me that  
it should exist.  After all it's basically a lifetime appointment and  
revocations are very rare if one has ever happened at all.

Greg

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