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From James Mitchell <james.l.mitch...@mac.com>
Subject Re: [ti] Status Matrix
Date Fri, 02 Sep 2005 05:36:03 GMT
I would rather not have to maintain both a Maven plugin and an Ant  
task.  With Maven it is trivially simple to do an ant call.  That  
might be a better solution.

One thing I was wondering though.  Does the reference to  
"...simplicity of Ruby on Rails..." mean that one day, a developer  
can build a web application completely within an IDE (Eclipse for  
example)?  From Database design to JSP tags, a developer could use a  
tool like dbvisualizer and the db meta changes force a live update  
the source, which are hot deployed (if possible) or deployed and  
container gets recycled all on the fly.....am I dreaming?

While I can see how templating would get us close, I don't know how  
we could ever match Ruby's support of continuations and other  
features.  I mean, it's just not part of the language.

Thoughts?

--
James Mitchell
Software Engineer / Open Source Evangelist
Consulting / Mentoring / Freelance
EdgeTech, Inc.
http://www.edgetechservices.net/
678.910.8017
AIM:   jmitchtx
Yahoo: jmitchtx
MSN:   jmitchell@apache.org
Skype: callto://jmitchtx





On Sep 2, 2005, at 1:22 AM, Rich Feit wrote:

> I agree with all points.  The file generation based on annotations  
> is on par with generating through XDoclet -- having a simple ant  
> macro would be nice IMO.
>
> We could still provide a maven plugin, though, right?  Something  
> that would look in a well-known place for annotated controller  
> classes.  This is something we could even use internally, in our  
> samples builds.
>
> Rich
>
> James Mitchell wrote:
>
>
>> I don't know the extent of the process you are talking about, but  
>> I  wouldn't recommend using Maven for it.  Ant makes the most  
>> sense, since:
>>  a) it is *the* most widely supported build tool,
>>  b) all major IDEs already have fairly advanced support for it,
>>  c) Maven 1.0.2 uses it under the covers anyway.
>>  d) Ant is more scripting based (you 'script' your build) as
>>     opposed to Maven, which is more of a 'project based' tool
>>     (You describe your project and it does the rest of the magic)
>>
>> Although I can't imagine this really being any more difficult to  
>> do  than what we already do with XDoclet, right?
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> James Mitchell
>> Software Engineer / Open Source Evangelist
>> Consulting / Mentoring / Freelance
>> EdgeTech, Inc.
>> http://www.edgetechservices.net/
>> 678.910.8017
>> AIM:   jmitchtx
>> Yahoo: jmitchtx
>> MSN:   jmitchell@apache.org
>> Skype: callto://jmitchtx
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sep 2, 2005, at 12:53 AM, Rich Feit wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Sorry, I should have been clearer.  I was thinking specifically  
>>> of  any build-time support we provide, like generating files  
>>> based on  annotations/tags (the converse of the live feedback  
>>> feature).  I  assume this would translate to ant macros or a  
>>> maven plugin (I'm  guessing/proposing that we do both, i.e., we  
>>> can't abandon ant).
>>>
>>> James Mitchell wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> I'm not sure I understand.  If a user wants to create a new ti-  
>>>> based  application, wouldn't they just do the same thing they  
>>>> are  doing now  with Struts/JSF/Whatever or anything else?   
>>>> (e.g. Add  the jars to the  classpath to their existing build  
>>>> process, build  and deploy)
>>>>
>>>> Or are we talking about the "live feedback" when an annotation  
>>>> is   changed or new controller is added?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -- 
>>>> James Mitchell
>>>> Software Engineer / Open Source Evangelist
>>>> Consulting / Mentoring / Freelance
>>>> EdgeTech, Inc.
>>>> http://www.edgetechservices.net/
>>>> 678.910.8017
>>>> AIM:   jmitchtx
>>>> Yahoo: jmitchtx
>>>> MSN:   jmitchell@apache.org
>>>> Skype: callto://jmitchtx
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sep 2, 2005, at 12:41 AM, Rich Feit wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> OK, I just tried this.  But the main thing I'm wondering about   
>>>>> here  is the project model for our users (rather than for  
>>>>> us).   To create  a Struts Ti project, what do they need?  Will  
>>>>> we  provide them with  jars and a set of ant macros for  
>>>>> integrating  Ti into their own  builds, or will we mandate that  
>>>>> they build  their projects using  maven?  I'm assuming it's the  
>>>>> former, but  I'd love to hear feedback  on that.  It seems like  
>>>>> at this point,  there is still tons of real- world ant  
>>>>> infrastructure that Ti  would have to get integrated into.
>>>>>
>>>>> Rich
>>>>>
>>>>> James Mitchell wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Oh, no worries.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Maven will generate an Ant build.xml for you.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Unfortunately, it won't do the multiproject thing for you,  
>>>>>> but  if  you  go into ti/jars/core and do "maven ant", Maven  
>>>>>> will  generate  an Ant  build.xml file.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> hmmm...I just tried this, but since we have multiple   
>>>>>> repositories   declared, the ant build only uses the first  
>>>>>> one  listed.  If you go  in  and manually tweak the build.xml  
>>>>>> and  point the <get> tasks at  the  right repository (ibiblio
 
>>>>>> or  ~mrdon or cppdoc.com/), it will  work  fine (you just have  
>>>>>> to  know which one).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You can do the same for jars/java5 and wars/samples.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>> James Mitchell
>>>>>> Software Engineer / Open Source Evangelist
>>>>>> Consulting / Mentoring / Freelance
>>>>>> EdgeTech, Inc.
>>>>>> http://www.edgetechservices.net/
>>>>>> 678.910.8017
>>>>>> AIM:   jmitchtx
>>>>>> Yahoo: jmitchtx
>>>>>> MSN:   jmitchell@apache.org
>>>>>> Skype: callto://jmitchtx
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sep 1, 2005, at 3:20 PM, Rich Feit wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That's great -- my new default.  Thanks.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What do you think about the ant-vs-maven issue for user    
>>>>>>> projects?   I feel that while we should support maven, we   
>>>>>>> should  not require  it.  Do you have a sense for whether  
>>>>>>> this  is right?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Rich
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> James Mitchell wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Actually, if you want "jar-all war-all", just run "maven
  
>>>>>>>> dist"   from  the root ti folder.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>>>> James Mitchell
>>>>>>>> Software Engineer / Open Source Evangelist
>>>>>>>> Consulting / Mentoring / Freelance
>>>>>>>> EdgeTech, Inc.
>>>>>>>> http://www.edgetechservices.net/
>>>>>>>> 678.910.8017
>>>>>>>> AIM:   jmitchtx
>>>>>>>> Yahoo: jmitchtx
>>>>>>>> MSN:   jmitchell@apache.org
>>>>>>>> Skype: callto://jmitchtx
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Sep 1, 2005, at 2:06 PM, Rich Feit wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Ahh... 'maven jar-all war-all'.  Nice.  Thanks, James.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> James Mitchell wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> A better option might be to run any of the '*-all'
 
>>>>>>>>>> targets    listed   here...
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> http://svn.apache.org/viewcvs.cgi/struts/sandbox/trunk/

>>>>>>>>>> ti/    maven.xml? rev=264938&view=markup
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I am currently working on adding cactus test integration,
  
>>>>>>>>>> but   it  is  not complete yet.....soon though.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>>>>>> James Mitchell
>>>>>>>>>> Software Engineer / Open Source Evangelist
>>>>>>>>>> Consulting / Mentoring / Freelance
>>>>>>>>>> EdgeTech, Inc.
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.edgetechservices.net/
>>>>>>>>>> 678.910.8017
>>>>>>>>>> AIM:   jmitchtx
>>>>>>>>>> Yahoo: jmitchtx
>>>>>>>>>> MSN:   jmitchell@apache.org
>>>>>>>>>> Skype: callto://jmitchtx
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 1, 2005, at 3:14 AM, Don Brown wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I've talked to several people interested in Ti
but  
>>>>>>>>>>> unsure    where  to  start.  To help define where
we are  
>>>>>>>>>>> and where  we  are  going,  I  started a "Status
Matrix"  
>>>>>>>>>>> wiki page   containing  features,  their  completion
 
>>>>>>>>>>> precentage, and  notes.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> http://wiki.apache.org/struts/StrutsTi/StatusMatrix
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Please feel free to add/modify this matrix to
point out    
>>>>>>>>>>> areas   that  need work or have been resolved.
 A good  
>>>>>>>>>>> way  to  get  started  is to  run the samples
in the  
>>>>>>>>>>> repository:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> With Java 5 as your JAVA_HOME setting, run:
>>>>>>>>>>> 'maven jar jar:install'  in jars/core and jars/java5
>>>>>>>>>>> 'maven war' in wars/samples
>>>>>>>>>>> to build a war that you can deploy in a Tomcat
container.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> A big thanks to Rich Feit and James for the Page
Flow   
>>>>>>>>>>> stuff   and   Maven build respectively.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Don
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------

>>>>>>>>>>> -- -- -- -- -
>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@struts.apache.org
>>>>>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@struts.apache.org
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> -------------------------------------------------------------

>>>>>>>>>> -- -- -- --
>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@struts.apache.org
>>>>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@struts.apache.org
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------

>>>>>>>>> -- -- -- -
>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@struts.apache.org
>>>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@struts.apache.org
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------

>>>>>>>> -- -- --
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@struts.apache.org
>>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@struts.apache.org
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------

>>>>>>> -- -- -
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@struts.apache.org
>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@struts.apache.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----------------------------------------------------------------

>>>>>> -- --
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@struts.apache.org
>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@struts.apache.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------ 
>>>>> -- -
>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@struts.apache.org
>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@struts.apache.org
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------- 
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
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>>
>>
>
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