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From Don Brown <>
Subject [ti] Ruby on Rails like? (was Status Matrix}
Date Fri, 02 Sep 2005 14:57:55 GMT
What I mean by Ruby on Rails like, I mean a similar experience for the 
end user.  This means no or little configuration, intuitive behavior, 
minimal contact with the framework, quick development, etc.  I'm open to 
the possibility of bundling Jetty/Tomcat, an ORM framework, and even 
Derby/HSQL, complete with scripts that use them to get an application up 
quickly.  My vision for Ti is a framework geared towards the new Java 
web developer that enabled rapid prototyping along the lines of Ruby on 
Rails.  That is not to say it wouldn't be internally flexible to allow 
the power user to mold it to his/her will, but the version that ships 
should be intuitive, self-contained, and well documented.

For example, I see the app creation process as this:

1. Download Struts Ti
2. Run a script which
   - prompts you to gather a few bits of key information
   - generates an application skeleton
   - fires up the included application server
3. View the home page in your web browser
4. Modify the Controller class to add an additional action
5. Write the action's jsp/vm page
6. Refresh the page

To enable this workflow, Ti might include:
   - A compiling classloader which detects source changes
   - Automatic annotation/doclet tag processing triggered by source code 
   - Automatically reloadable configuration (already included 
compliments of XWork)
   - Scaffold code to fill in gaps until the developer is ready to code them

So as you can see, while what the user sees is simple and 
straight-forward, the framework itself might have to jump through some 
hoops to implement those features.  In my opinion, Java web frameworks 
have been too much about how great they are (navel-gazing), and not 
enough about making it easy for the end developer.  I see Struts Ti 
zeroing in on creating a great end-user framework, collaborating with 
other projects as much as possible to get there.

So, continuations is just one piece of RoR which we may support or we 
may not, but the technical features of RoR is not what I mean when I say 
RoR like; I mean the end user development experience.


Wendy Smoak wrote:
> From: "James Mitchell" <>
>> While I can see how templating would get us close, I don't know how  we
>> could ever match Ruby's support of continuations and other  features.  I
>> mean, it's just not part of the language.
> Bruce Tate does a presentation called "Stretching Java" in which he shows
> continuations in Ruby and Seaside, and then shows how Spring WebFlow, Rife,
> and Cocoon 2 are doing them (or getting close) in Java.
> There's some discussion of continuations in Rife vs. WebFlow here:

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