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From "Niall Pemberton" <niall.pember...@blueyonder.co.uk>
Subject Re: What binds us (Re: [VOTE] Struts 1.2.6 Quality)
Date Sun, 05 Dec 2004 20:58:41 GMT
I buy into what Ted said on legality/reality. The reality is that if
anyone -1's anything then they have to justify why, whether they're a PMC
member or not - if someone puts forward good reasons for a -1 then they're
not going to be ignored. On the other side of the coin the more people that
+1 a release (or decision) the better, whether they're PMC,committer,
contributor or user. I belive its going to be a rare occasion when when the
PMC ploughs ahead with somthing when people ae -1'ing.

Niall


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Eddie Bush" <eabush@swbell.net>
To: "Struts Developers List" <dev@struts.apache.org>
Sent: Sunday, December 05, 2004 7:06 PM
Subject: Re: What binds us (Re: [VOTE] Struts 1.2.6 Quality)


> Good stuff :-)  Thanks Ted and Niall for the clarification.  My apologies,
> again, if I came off as being obtuse.  I just wasn't seeing it.  Niall's
> message helped, and I really apprecite your note fleshing things out, Ted.
>
> Eddie
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Ted Husted" <husted@apache.org>
> To: "Struts Developers List" <dev@struts.apache.org>
> Sent: Sunday, December 05, 2004 12:08 PM
> Subject: What binds us (Re: [VOTE] Struts 1.2.6 Quality)
>
>
> As always, everyone is invited to vote on everything. :)
>
> The website is still a little out of synch with what has been decided on
the
> dev list. Right now, the best reference for the release process is the
> Release Checklist.
>
> * http://struts.apache.org/release-checklist.html
>
> This document obsoletes the link to Jakarta Tomcat's guidelines, which
cover
> more than the release process. We just have gotten around to removing the
> link yet.
>
> The Struts resolution includes an instruction to draft a set of bylaws,
> which we have done here:
>
> * http://struts.apache.org/bylaws.html
>
> As to who has binding votes and why:
>
> The copyright to Struts codebase is owned by the Apache Software
Foundation
> and distributed under the Apache license. But, if the foundation's eyes,
> Struts "belongs" to the community. Through a corporate resolution,
>
>
*http://www.apache.org/foundation/records/minutes/2004/board_minutes_2004_03
_17.txt
>
> the foundation has delegated the task of creating and maintaining Struts
to
> the Struts PMC. The PMC makes the day-to-day decisions, which includes
> determining whether a distribution is "ready for primetime" or not.
>
> Because the PMC is the body created by ASF corporate resolution, only the
> votes of the PMC members are "binding", in a technical, legal sense. But,
if
> we have three PMC members voting "yes" and a dozen other people voting
"no",
> I'm sure the PMC would reconsider. The foundation's goal is to create
> codebases that survive its creators and any given set of maintainers. The
> health of the community always comes first.
>
> The important thing to remember is that the Struts PMC is not a
government,
> it's a team. Like most teams, we set up procedures so that we don't have
to
> reinvent the wheel over and over again. But we do not serve the
procedures,
> the procedures serve us. There are legal reasons why the PMC has to
> authorize a release on behalf of the foundation, but I believe most of us
> would give as much weight to votes of Committers, and Developers, and
Users,
> as we do PMC members.
>
> For a while at Jakarta, the Committer's votes were considered "binding"
too.
> But, from the ASF board's perspective, they were never binding in a
> technical, legal sense. I've strongly suggested that the Jakarta
> documentation be updated, but others felt it better to leave it alone.
> However, there is a now policy at Jakarta to make all the committers PMC
> members as soon as possible, to cure any procedural issues.
>
> Some of our procedures do have to be legally binding to ensure that there
is
> no question of owns the Struts codebase and where it came from. All the
ASF
> committers have agreements on file that assign the rights to our commits
to
> the Foundation, there is a resolution by the Foundation that created
Struts,
> there are regular PMC reports to the board about the status of Struts, and
> the PMC is responsible for vetting each and every change we make to
Struts,
> either ourselves or through a committer.
>
> Legally, the Struts PMC that makes all the decisions on behalf of the
> Foundation, because the PMC is the legal body that the Foundation created.
> We make those decisions based on feedback from everyone in the community
> (including our own experiences, since we are also members of the community
> we serve). Inviting everyone to vote is one way that we collect feedback.
>
> -Ted.
>
> On Fri, 03 Dec 2004 21:57:02 -0600, Eddie Bush wrote:
> > I don't see a difference, Martin.
> >
> > It's moot to me. I haven't had time to test it, so I hadn't
> > intended to voice any input. I don't see what you're quoting to
> > say that only PMC members have voting rights on the quality of a
> > release though. In fact, I still feel my original view is valid:
> > PMC members are there to authorize the release, once committers
> > determine it's quality by a vote.
> >
> > I'm not trying to be thick :-) I just don't see what you're
> > "pointing" to as an authority on the matter. It's more for the
> > sake of my understanding, I suppose. I might care in the future ;-)
> >
> > Y'all have fun. I've got to make a road trip this weekend :-( No
> > rest for the wicked!
> >
> > Night,
> >
> > Eddie
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Martin Cooper" <mfncooper@gmail.com>
> > To: "Eddie Bush" <eabush@swbell.net>
> > Cc: "Struts Developers List" <dev@struts.apache.org>
> > Sent: Friday, December 03, 2004 9:31 PM
> > Subject: Re: [VOTE] Struts 1.2.6 Quality
> >
> >
> >> You're quoting from the Jakarta decision making page. We're not
> >> at Jakarta any more, and have our own process now. You have some
> >> catching up to do, Eddie. ;-)
> >>
> >> Here's what we're doing these days:
> >>
> >> http://struts.apache.org/releases.html
> >>
> >> --
> >> Martin Cooper
> >>
> >>
> >> On Fri, 3 Dec 2004 20:55:47 -0600, Eddie Bush <eabush@swbell.net>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> I was of the impression that committers and up judged quality
> >>> and PMC members were in charge of deciding whether distribution
> >>> would happen or not.
> >>>
> >>> <quot>
> >>> After a new release is built, it must be tested before being
> >>> released to the
> >>> public. Majority approval is required before the release can be
> >>> made. Once a
> >>> release is approved by the Committers, the Project Management
> >>> Committee can
> >>> authorize its distribution on behalf of the Foundation. </quot>
> >>>
> >>> Am I misinterpreting that?
> >>>
> >>> Eddie
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>> From: "Martin Cooper" <mfncooper@gmail.com>
> >>> To: "Struts Developers List" <dev@struts.apache.org>
> >>> Sent: Friday, December 03, 2004 12:49 AM
> >>> Subject: [VOTE] Struts 1.2.6 Quality
> >>>
> >>>> The Struts 1.2.6 test build has been available for about two
> >>>> weeks now. Once you have had a chance to form an opinion on
> >>>> the quality of this build, please respond to the following
> >>>> vote.
> >>>>
> >>>> -----
> >>>> Based on its quality, the Struts 1.2.6 build should be
> >>>> classified as:
> >>>>
> >>>> [ ] Alpha
> >>>> [ ] Beta
> >>>> [ ] General Availability (GA)
> >>>> -----
> >>>>
> >>>> If you are voting for Alpha or Beta, please state your
> >>>> concerns with the build as it is today.
> >>>>
> >>>> Only the votes of Struts PMC members are binding. However,
> >>>> all opinions and feedback are welcome.
> >>>>
> >>>> --
> >>>> Martin Cooper
> >>>>
> >>>> --------------------------------------------------------------
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> >>>> mail: dev-help@struts.apache.org
> >>>>
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