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From "Frank Zammetti" <fzamm...@hotmail.com>
Subject Re: Struts Web Services Enablement Project
Date Fri, 04 Jun 2004 16:37:09 GMT
Don, I'd be lieing if I said I understood all of what you said.  If I'm 
getting it at all though, I think the basic point, correct me if I'm wrong, 
is that since one of the limitations of my package is that the incoming 
request has to be "flat" in form, you are suggesting a way to allow for 
translation of a more complex XML form into a flat one that can then be 
parsed for parameters, is that correct?

On the output side, I think your saying allow for much the same thing, all 
in a plugable fashion... but I think I do already allow for that which the 
release of .02 by allowing for mapping to a JSP that knows the specifics of 
a given ActionForm and can therefore render a more complex response if need 
be.  Are you suggesting a more elegant way to do basically that?

I'm not familiar with much of the technologies you names, XPath I think is 
the only one I know something about, so I'd have a lot of learning to do 
before I could implement your suggestions (which is not at all a bad 
thing!).

I am going to look at the struts-chain this weekend though since a number of 
people have made the same suggestion.  It doesn't sound like a huge change 
on the surface, so it seems like a good next task to tackle to me.  One 
question: that facility is not avalable in 1.1, correct?  Is it slated for 
1.2 (I thought I saw someone else say 1.3?).  I'm a little bid weary of 
changing this to something that will reduce how many people could possibly 
use it, but if it's not a major change like I suspect then supporting both 
probably isn't a problem either.

Thanks!

Frank

>From: Don Brown <mrdon@twdata.org>
>Reply-To: "Struts Developers List" <dev@struts.apache.org>
>To: Struts Developers List <dev@struts.apache.org>
>Subject: Re: Struts Web Services Enablement Project
>Date: Fri, 04 Jun 2004 12:14:16 -0400
>
>I think there can be considerable benefit from exposing Struts Actions.  
>For one, how Struts is currently architected, all the validation happens in 
>the Struts layer so putting the web service interface in front of that 
>makes sense.  Two, many times user authorization occurs in the Actions and 
>so if this code hooked into the Servlets API, authorization is 
>automatically taken care of.
>
>I'd recommend two feature additions to make this useable for document style 
>SOAP messaging:
>
>1) Put a configurable XML transformation pipeline before the SOAP message 
>gets interpreted for parameters, and after the response is created.  The 
>pipeline for the response should start with auto-generated request XML (via 
>something like XStream).
>
>2) Improve the request parameter schema for the incoming XML document to 
>include XPath paths as parameter names.  This way, using something like 
>JXPath, a complex XML element could be automatically created, to be then 
>transformed by the pipeline.  Send the resulting XML to the action via a 
>wrapper action form or even just put it in the request.  Better yet, have 
>the resulting XML be processed by an XML binding framework like XStream to 
>create arbitrary Java objects to be passed to the action.
>
>The key is to enable any XML schema to be used as input and output.  The 
>XML pipeline further isolates you from schema changes.
>
>Finally, I'd also recommend looking at using struts-chain rather than a 
>RequestProcessor.  If the above functionality was decomposed into different 
>Commands, one could easily plug in, say, a different XML binding framework 
>or get rid of the XPath processor altogether.
>
>Don
>
>Duncan Mills wrote:
>
>>Didn't mean to be harsh - I was just presenting the alternative viewpoint 
>>that has to be answered.  Personally I can see the benefit that this 
>>project could offer, but the counter stance is a one to raise is it not?
>>
>>Regards
>>
>>Duncan Mills
>>Senior Principal Product Manager
>>Oracle Application Development Tools
>>
>>
>>Jung, Eric wrote:
>>
>>>Wow, that's kind of harsh, Duncan.
>>>
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: Duncan Mills [mailto:duncan.mills@oracle.com]
>>>Sent: Friday, June 04, 2004 3:38 AM
>>>To: Struts Developers List
>>>Subject: Re: Struts Web Services Enablement Project
>>>
>>>
>>>Frank forgive me here, but playing Devils Advocate, if you have clean MVC 
>>>separation then surely the last thing you want to do is to expose Actions 
>>>as Web Services.
>>>It is reasonable to want to expose Business Service Providers such as 
>>>EJB, or TopLink beans as Web Services but that's up in the model layer, 
>>>what's the point in pushing the access point down into the Controller 
>>>code?
>>>
>>>Or do you see here a solution for all those folks who've not followed 
>>>best practice and have intermingled Controller functionality with 
>>>Business logic..?
>>>
>>>Regards
>>>
>>>Duncan Mills
>>>Senior Principal Product Manager
>>>Oracle Application Development Tools
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Frank Zammetti wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Hello devs!  This is my first time posting here, and my first attempt at 
>>>>contributing to an Apache project.  I hope I'm going about it properly! 
>>>>:)
>>>>
>>>>In short, I have a little project going with the stated goal of allowing 
>>>>a Struts developer to expose any existing business logic, as implemented 
>>>>in Struts Actions and their subordinate helper classes, as Web Services, 
>>>>and do this with NO changes required to any existing application code, 
>>>>and as little change to Struts itself as possible.  Simplicity is the 
>>>>key to this!
>>>>
>>>>Today I released a second version of this project to the user's mailing 
>>>>list, and after some feedback I think it's at a point where I'd like to 
>>>>make you all aware of it, and get some higher-level feedback.  It's 
>>>>certainly far from complete at this point, but I think even now it's in 
>>>>a useful form.
>>>>
>>>>My hope is that eventually it will be good enough to be included in the 
>>>>base Struts distro, but that's obviously a long way off, if ever.
>>>>
>>>>With all that in mind, please at your convenience visit 
>>>>http://www.omnytex.com/strutsws
>>>>
>>>>There you will find some more detailed technical information and a 
>>>>download which contains everything you need, including a simple sample 
>>>>webapp demonstrating the whole mess.
>>>>
>>>>I thank you in advance for any time you spend on this!
>>>>
>>>>Frank W. Zammetti
>>>>
>>>>_________________________________________________________________
>>>>Looking to buy a house? Get informed with the Home Buying Guide from MSN 
>>>>House & Home. http://coldwellbanker.msn.com/
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>
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>
>
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