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From "V. Cekvenich" ...@basebeans.com>
Subject Re: Another bright idea, make "indexed" work with JSTL forEach and friends
Date Sun, 05 Jan 2003 21:01:07 GMT
Oh. Yeah, tiles XML is "OO".
Thanks for the correction!

  .V

Martin Cooper wrote:
> 
> On Sun, 5 Jan 2003, V. Cekvenich wrote:
> 
> 
>>Craig wrote :
>>"I'm playing with more interesting
>>  ideas like using Jelly scripts (or JSP pages) as Actions so you don't
>>have  to write them in Java. "
>>
>>
>>If Actions, or anything goes XML (Jelly), or JSP, EL or generator (or
>>sometimes design patterns) we lose OO.
> 
> 
> Not necessarily. XML is more a syntax than a language - it's what you do
> with it that supplies the semantics. (This is part of its heritage - SGML
> was designed specifically to avoid embedding of semantics in the original
> document, which is why DSSSL was designed to provide those semantics.)
> 
> For example, look at Tiles. I can create a definition in XML, and then I
> can create further definitions that 'extend' the first one.
> 
> Just as other languages such as Java and C++ can be used for object
> oriented programming, XML can too. It just depends on how you use it.




> 
> --
> Martin Cooper
> 
> 
> 
>>OO gives us productivity as Java is OO capable, and some people use it
>>in OO way. (Similar issue in C++, some people use C++ in C mode, or what
>>I call object disoriented mode).
>>
>>Unless there is a way I do not know of to make above (XML, el,
>>generators) be able to do:
>>- "is a / has a"  (extends a base class, or  has an extended helper object)
>>- inheritance and delegation (same as above) allows for after the fact
>>programing. After a developer thinks they are done with the scope,
>>*clients like to change the scope*, so when one has a baseAction or a
>>baseActionHelper, one can go to the base class and quickly maintain the
>>code, and not have to go to every place.
>>
>>Java is OO capable, whereas above listed things AFAIK do not have that
>>productivity in maintenance mode.
>>
>>Please take OO in consideration, it is a 10 fold advantage for the OO
>>Java practitioners. (It is not just overriding and polymorphisam. I
>>could give more real life examples. Like one base action that need to
>>act this way or another depedning on the situation.)
>>
>>Same issue is for non Action cases. XML, or JSP, EL,  generator,  or
>>scripts (or sometimes design patterns) we could lose OO and flexibility.
>>
>>(I can say in EL when you use this expresion here do it this way, BUT
>>over here, use the same expresion in another way)
>>
>>(OT: I was told that Flash (when one does data entery screens in a Flash
>>plug in) can do limited OO)
>>
>>.V
>>
>>
>>
>>Craig R. McClanahan wrote:
>>
>>>On 4 Jan 2003, David M. Karr wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Date: 04 Jan 2003 17:28:58 -0800
>>>>From: David M. Karr <dmkarr@earthlink.net>
>>>>Reply-To: Struts Developers List <struts-dev@jakarta.apache.org>
>>>>To: struts-dev@jakarta.apache.org
>>>>Subject: Re: Another bright idea,
>>>>    make "indexed" work with JSTL forEach and friends
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>"Craig" == Craig R McClanahan <craigmcc@apache.org>
writes:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>   Craig> On 4 Jan 2003, David M. Karr wrote:
>>>>
>>>>   >> Can anyone envision any other situations in the Struts code where
indirect
>>>>   >> references to the JSTL would be convenient?  That, at least, could
give us some
>>>>   >> additional perspective on this.
>>>>
>>>>   Craig> General purpose access to the EL evaluator (which David used
in
>>>>   Craig> implementing the EL-ized versions of the Struts tag libraries)
would
>>>>   Craig> definitely be useful in general purpose computing environments.
 The Jelly
>>>>   Craig> project (in jakarta-commons-sandbox) uses this kind of thing
for EL-izing
>>>>   Craig> the scripting environment that Jelly supports, for example.
>>>>
>>>>   Craig> It would be interesting to contemplate where you might usefully
leverage
>>>>   Craig> EL expressions ... say, in struts-config.xml constructs ...
>>>>
>>>>Could we do this in DynaBean property value initializations?
>>>
>>>
>>>That would certainly make sense, as long as we could identify the
>>>"variable context"  (in EL implementation terms) with which variable
>>>references should be resolved.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>I can't think of
>>>>any other places in the config file where this would be useful (yet).
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>At least one other place would be things like the pattern matching rules
>>>in the <controller> element for calculating URLs.
>>>
>>>Longer term (2.0 time frame probably), I'm playing with more interesting
>>>ideas like using Jelly scripts (or JSP pages) as Actions so you don't have
>>>to write them in Java.  We also need a good high level multi-request
>>>framework, and it might be useful there in automating some of the forward
>>>and backward link references.
>>>
>>>Craig
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>>
>>




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