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From micael <caraun...@harbornet.com>
Subject Re: Hello, all.
Date Mon, 09 Dec 2002 17:37:58 GMT
Well, starting off with a flame of the very subject of the entire list is 
not the best way to become a "learner" in my opinion.  So, I must apologize 
for thinking that you already thought your guesses were true about 
struts.  They are not.  Since you are here to learn, I will let you go and 
wish you luck.

At 11:45 AM 12/9/2002 -0500, you wrote:
>Then enlighten me? I wouldn't have joined the list at all if I hadn't been
>interested in learning more. Dave had a substantive point, one I responded
>to. Where I erred once, I'm sure I can err again; I'm trying to prevent
>that if I can.
>
>On Mon, 9 Dec 2002, micael wrote:
>
> > Joseph, you are making a fool out of yourself.  You seem to have no idea
> > how little you know.
> >
> > At 11:08 AM 12/9/2002 -0500, you wrote:
> > >On Mon, 9 Dec 2002, David Graham wrote:
> > >
> > > > Joseph,
> > > > I noticed you quoted me on your site but you left out the important 
> point
> > > > that Struts has never and will never dictate a model or view layer
> > > > technology.  Struts gives you total freedom because at its core 
> it's simply
> > > > an action controller.  The taglibs will be replaced by standards 
> like JSTL
> > > > and JSF.
> > >
> > >Actually, I did note those things, while my definition of a "model"
> > >differs slightly from yours. I made a point out of mentioning in my
> > >introductory email here that I retracted one of my criticisms, centered
> > >around your point.
> > >
> > > > I had never heard of your site before someone posted it on this 
> list and I
> > > > don't intend to visit it often.  Struts does not need a defense on your
> > > > site.  *You* need to actually build a meaningful app using Struts 
> and then
> > > > make a judgement.  The only "defense" of Struts I'll offer is this:
> > > > Thousands of successful web applications have been produced quickly and
> > > > cheaply using Struts.  Struts is the most popular Java web MVC
> > > framework for
> > > > a reason.  I suggest you find out why.
> > >
> > >Lots of points here!
> > >
> > >For one thing, it's okay - my site has no banners, no sponsors begging for
> > >extra traffic. Whether you visit often or not, well, hey - that's up to
> > >you. As far as using struts: I've deployed struts apps, "meaningful" ones.
> > >I've found other frameworks to be more appropriate for more situations.
> > >"Most popular" is fairly well beyond doubt, and I've never claimed
> > >otherwise (nor would I)... but then again, Windows is the "most popular"
> > >OS, and that doesn't mean it's the best solution.
> > >
> > > > I frankly don't care if some people don't like Struts; that's a 
> matter of
> > > > personal preference.  I do care when it is misrepresented with ignorant
> > > > statements.
> > >
> > >Indeed! I agree with this; as I've stated, my goal was to explain a
> > >viewpoint that was asked about. I joined this list so that I could
> > >determine what actually *IS* incorrect and fix that.
> > >
>
>---------------------------------------------------------
>Joseph B. Ottinger                 joeo@enigmastation.com
>http://enigmastation.com                    IT Consultant
>
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Micael

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